Best Motoring American Touge
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From: North Mexico (Inland Empire)
Originally Posted by DavidV
As a fellow "competitor" - RWD turbo class - I can add the following observations (for once - in agreement with Shiv):
(1) The NA RWD Class: No car from this class made it into the finals. The M3, a beautiful and nicely prepped car and the only German vehicle in the event, was told his car was "not entertaining enough" for the video. Could you imagine being one of the "competitors" in this field of approx. 10 NA RWD cars and being sent home with none of the cars selected so that the Vivid Racing Turbo RX-8 could run?
(2) In the turbo RWD class, the 550rwhp Factor X NSX ran a 1:07 lap. In the same class, my ’93 MR2 ran a 1:05 lap. I asked the producers why my car was not advanced into the final round as the winner of my class based on the lap times I observed on the time sheets. I was told that the decision was not based on lap times, but on subjective scores from the driver (if this is case, why bother timing laps?). Naturally, I then asked to see my subjective score as this had not been communicated to me before they announced the class winners to the crowd. When they flipped to that page, the space next to my car was blank and I was told that they had "forgotten" to score my car. So I next asked that if in fact my MR2 set the fastest lap, and received no subjective score, why did my car not advance to the finals? I was told that the answer might be in the driver's notes or in his comments - so naturally we asked to speak to the driver with the help of a translator and his comments on my car were all very positive. This leaves me wondering, on what criteria were the NSX - and a second car from the same class, the Vivid RX-8 - advanced into the "finals"?
(3) In the AWD class, as Shiv pointed out, the unanimous vote was that the Evo advance. I believe this caught the organizers by surprise as they were likely expecting the crowd to be goggle eyed over the prospect of running the Skyline - we weren't.
The fact is, they knew up front that they wanted the silver NSX up against the Silver Skyline with a flashy blue RX-8 and white Civic in there to round out the field.
Does it come as any surprise that before the cars ever hit the track, the Skyline had the camera mounted on it and the Vishnu Evo didn't? Unless that Skyline had broken down mid track and unless the NSX was the recent recipient of a Geo Metro swap, those cars were going to run head-to-head in the finals no matter what and no German car, old platform, quirky car, or anything that doesn't sell a boatload of these videos was going to make it into the final rounds no matter what.
Interestingly, despite the fact that these events cost the entrants thousands of dollars to participate (tires, race fuel, trailers, time off work, etc.) and the fact that people came in from all over the country, all were given in thanks was a T-Shirt - only I didn't get a t-shirt since the ones they were going to give to the "competitors" in thanks were sold for $10 a pop.
I also agree with Shiv's comment to me at the track - how ironic that both SCC in their 2005 USCC shoot out and Best Motoring picked a vehicle (R34 Skyline) that could not legally ever be registered or driven in any state in the U.S.?
If this sounds like sour grapes, maybe it is, but I for one (and I imagine, other competitors) would like to know the true nature of an event before spending sizeable chunks of time and money in preparation. Had I known, I might have procured a Mclaren F1 for the day to have assured myself and my sponors a favorable result - oh wait, that's not a JDM Skyline, so that would have been eliminated too....
-- DavidV
(1) The NA RWD Class: No car from this class made it into the finals. The M3, a beautiful and nicely prepped car and the only German vehicle in the event, was told his car was "not entertaining enough" for the video. Could you imagine being one of the "competitors" in this field of approx. 10 NA RWD cars and being sent home with none of the cars selected so that the Vivid Racing Turbo RX-8 could run?
(2) In the turbo RWD class, the 550rwhp Factor X NSX ran a 1:07 lap. In the same class, my ’93 MR2 ran a 1:05 lap. I asked the producers why my car was not advanced into the final round as the winner of my class based on the lap times I observed on the time sheets. I was told that the decision was not based on lap times, but on subjective scores from the driver (if this is case, why bother timing laps?). Naturally, I then asked to see my subjective score as this had not been communicated to me before they announced the class winners to the crowd. When they flipped to that page, the space next to my car was blank and I was told that they had "forgotten" to score my car. So I next asked that if in fact my MR2 set the fastest lap, and received no subjective score, why did my car not advance to the finals? I was told that the answer might be in the driver's notes or in his comments - so naturally we asked to speak to the driver with the help of a translator and his comments on my car were all very positive. This leaves me wondering, on what criteria were the NSX - and a second car from the same class, the Vivid RX-8 - advanced into the "finals"?
(3) In the AWD class, as Shiv pointed out, the unanimous vote was that the Evo advance. I believe this caught the organizers by surprise as they were likely expecting the crowd to be goggle eyed over the prospect of running the Skyline - we weren't.
The fact is, they knew up front that they wanted the silver NSX up against the Silver Skyline with a flashy blue RX-8 and white Civic in there to round out the field.
Does it come as any surprise that before the cars ever hit the track, the Skyline had the camera mounted on it and the Vishnu Evo didn't? Unless that Skyline had broken down mid track and unless the NSX was the recent recipient of a Geo Metro swap, those cars were going to run head-to-head in the finals no matter what and no German car, old platform, quirky car, or anything that doesn't sell a boatload of these videos was going to make it into the final rounds no matter what.
Interestingly, despite the fact that these events cost the entrants thousands of dollars to participate (tires, race fuel, trailers, time off work, etc.) and the fact that people came in from all over the country, all were given in thanks was a T-Shirt - only I didn't get a t-shirt since the ones they were going to give to the "competitors" in thanks were sold for $10 a pop.
I also agree with Shiv's comment to me at the track - how ironic that both SCC in their 2005 USCC shoot out and Best Motoring picked a vehicle (R34 Skyline) that could not legally ever be registered or driven in any state in the U.S.?
If this sounds like sour grapes, maybe it is, but I for one (and I imagine, other competitors) would like to know the true nature of an event before spending sizeable chunks of time and money in preparation. Had I known, I might have procured a Mclaren F1 for the day to have assured myself and my sponors a favorable result - oh wait, that's not a JDM Skyline, so that would have been eliminated too....
-- DavidV
Originally Posted by runjunkie
the M3 was on Nitto NT-01s... DOT approved. So was Vivid's RX8.
So they judge the cars based based on how they like them. Didn't they know after they saw/drove the M3 that is wasn't "exciting" enough? They could have saved face and just gave it less points to justify choosing another car. So was M3 picked due to the fastest lap time in the class? And if it was, how much more inconsistency can there be?
Last edited by cuscoevo; Dec 21, 2005 at 02:56 PM.
Originally Posted by robi
EASY Alex,
I was agreeing with your observations. It was nice seeing that BOZZ had tires that QUALIFIED! Bravo! just check at the tire rack! most of the rest of the competitors (in ALL classes) had...the bogus rubber and the V car WAS ON LEAGL RUBBER TOO before it get's around that I'm bashing them!
Sorry for any implied complaint..
I was agreeing with your observations. It was nice seeing that BOZZ had tires that QUALIFIED! Bravo! just check at the tire rack! most of the rest of the competitors (in ALL classes) had...the bogus rubber and the V car WAS ON LEAGL RUBBER TOO before it get's around that I'm bashing them!
Sorry for any implied complaint..
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From: North Mexico (Inland Empire)
Originally Posted by chronohunter
only if you ride in the trunk of both cars during the competition (finally an EVO with perfect 50/50 weight distribution!), and yes we'll make you fit
i felt bad for the m3 guy... his car looked balanced as hell.. but they said it was underpowered and not exciting enough.
i learned a big lesson.. stickers and body kits count for alot. my car looks so plain and boring. of course the millions of bmi viewers would rather see a cool r34 attle a nsx. who wants to see a stock lookin evo on the cover of the bmi video? not many people im sure.. so despite the crowd's choice to let my car advance the people who were in charge made sure the cooler car (which was an incredible fast amazing car might i add) advance even though the tires were questionable. oh well i guess ill be happy with the special award.
the only thing that angered me about the conest is the way it is structured.. one vehicle form each class had to advance.. but yet all the fastest cars were in the AWD class. I think its kinda unfair that the 2nd fastest car didnt get to go to th finals. oh well.. it was a lot of fun.
i learned a big lesson.. stickers and body kits count for alot. my car looks so plain and boring. of course the millions of bmi viewers would rather see a cool r34 attle a nsx. who wants to see a stock lookin evo on the cover of the bmi video? not many people im sure.. so despite the crowd's choice to let my car advance the people who were in charge made sure the cooler car (which was an incredible fast amazing car might i add) advance even though the tires were questionable. oh well i guess ill be happy with the special award.
the only thing that angered me about the conest is the way it is structured.. one vehicle form each class had to advance.. but yet all the fastest cars were in the AWD class. I think its kinda unfair that the 2nd fastest car didnt get to go to th finals. oh well.. it was a lot of fun.
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From: North Mexico (Inland Empire)
Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
i felt bad for the m3 guy... his car looked balanced as hell.. but they said it was underpowered and not exciting enough.
i learned a big lesson.. stickers and body kits count for alot. my car looks so plain and boring. of course the millions of bmi viewers would rather see a cool r34 attle a nsx. who wants to see a stock lookin evo on the cover of the bmi video? not many people im sure.. so despite the crowd's choice to let my car advance the people who were in charge made sure the cooler car (which was an incredible fast amazing car might i add) advance even though the tires were questionable. oh well i guess ill be happy with the special award.
the only thing that angered me about the conest is the way it is structured.. one vehicle form each class had to advance.. but yet all the fastest cars were in the AWD class. I think its kinda unfair that the 2nd fastest car didnt get to go to th finals. oh well.. it was a lot of fun.
i learned a big lesson.. stickers and body kits count for alot. my car looks so plain and boring. of course the millions of bmi viewers would rather see a cool r34 attle a nsx. who wants to see a stock lookin evo on the cover of the bmi video? not many people im sure.. so despite the crowd's choice to let my car advance the people who were in charge made sure the cooler car (which was an incredible fast amazing car might i add) advance even though the tires were questionable. oh well i guess ill be happy with the special award.
the only thing that angered me about the conest is the way it is structured.. one vehicle form each class had to advance.. but yet all the fastest cars were in the AWD class. I think its kinda unfair that the 2nd fastest car didnt get to go to th finals. oh well.. it was a lot of fun.
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From: By the water
In the end it's to selling copies of the video to people who are into JDM vehicles or enthusiasts in Japan.
Vehicles that they can relate to.
I agree with all the competitors complaints. It was amazing seeing how many cars were eliminated from the group that showed up. The scoring systems are useless, It's the subjective opinion of Keiichi 'Drift King' that counts.
Vehicles that they can relate to.
I agree with all the competitors complaints. It was amazing seeing how many cars were eliminated from the group that showed up. The scoring systems are useless, It's the subjective opinion of Keiichi 'Drift King' that counts.
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From: Cartersville, GA
Originally Posted by chronohunter
when someone loans me an Sti for a few months
P.S. I'm in Colorado
P.S. I'm in Colorado
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by BOZZ
Oh, my bad. I guess they really did NOT let them run becasue they were not "exciting" enough.
So they judge the cars based based on how they like them. Didn't they know after they saw/drove the M3 that is wasn't "exciting" enough? They could have saved face and just gave it less points to justify choosing another car. So was M3 picked due to the fastest lap time in the class? And if it was, how much more inconsistency can there be?
So they judge the cars based based on how they like them. Didn't they know after they saw/drove the M3 that is wasn't "exciting" enough? They could have saved face and just gave it less points to justify choosing another car. So was M3 picked due to the fastest lap time in the class? And if it was, how much more inconsistency can there be?
The only reason our car was picked as the winner of the AWD class (ignoring the slick-equipped R34) was because it had the best subjective ratings at the end of the day (it was, i believe, the last car driven). It was by coincidence that it also had the fastest overall track time (with the exception of the illegal R34 of course). What strikes me as odd is the gutted Skyline race car only had a 1.3 sec advantage to a fully equipped, full weight, stock looking, daily driven EVO despite having 200hp power advantage and racing slicks. I think this tells us a lot about what car is really the ultimate JDM tuning platform, no?
As for the drivers, I do have to give them credit. They drove the snot out of all the cars. I just think a little bit got lost when production came into play. But then again, they are making a product and sometimes you need to make concessions when doing so. They never promised a fully sanctioned race. Just an opportunity to run what you brung in front of your peers. And that is exactly what we did. We didn't get to go home with the trophy but a moral victory is good enough!
-shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Dec 21, 2005 at 04:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The M3 wasn't the faster car its class. It was picked as the winner of the RWD NA class because of its handling balance which the drivers loved. It was later denied the chance to run at the battle because it wasn't exciting enough.
BTW - I agree again on the tire issue. I ran 205/50/15 tires (front) and 225/50/15 (rear), and like you, had a realtively full interior with power windows, door locks, and an alarm system (no stereo though). The fact that I ran a 1:05 on a 205 series tire IMO speaks volumes about any bogus "subjective" decisions based on anything other than video marketing.
-- DavidV
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by robi
It was nice seeing that BOZZ had tires that QUALIFIED! Bravo! just check at the tire rack! most of the rest of the competitors (in ALL classes) had...the bogus rubber and the V car WAS ON LEAGL RUBBER TOO before it get's around that I'm bashing them!
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From: Union City
The unfairness that people are speaking of was poor planning and coordination was as clear as day. All of the rules that were given to us (invited vehicles) by e-mail before the event and then were thrown out the window once cars were tested. I was told by Masa, the main english speaking guy from BMI said initially that the cars tested with non-compliant tires would have points deducted from their final score cards. But I think the Japanese producers were the ones to blame. The American guys were pretty much put into the dark when it came to who was the finalists and who wasnt. Shiv explained the whole part with the Vishnu EVO and XS Engineering. The best part of this is that when the pole was taken whether or not their car should compete, HE DIDNT EVEN RAISE HIS HAND.
There was a huge issue I had with the NA RWD class. We had the fastest time behind the not-very-flashy M3 that handled very very well. Our class was eliminated from the whole event all together. When I asked Masa about this part, his only reply was "I have no idea what is going on right now." Go figure. I found the owner of the M3, and he said that they didnt want his car to appear in the finals because it was not as exciting. I guess we'll see what the actual event will look on the DVD. No matter what, it was foul play somewhere along the road.
As to what happened with John Mueller's car, it was unfortunate to say the least. Watching that car fly around the track was definately a sight to see, and it WAS COMPLIANT TO THE RULES!!!!! Congrats to you guys for building a awsome car along with all the greeat cars at the event.
In defense of the hose popping off with the Vishnu car, I asked Masa as well about this. He said that there was no official time on the car yet, and if it was a simple fix (I.E. no motors/turbos/trannys being pulled out) then we could get back in the event as long as they were still doing the initial testing. Once we got the hose back on and put zip ties on the make sure vacuum line would not pop off. The test driving that Shiv did was to ensure the hose would not pop off under full boost and constant on-off throttle situations. No other changes were made to the car power, suspension, or tire wise. All the work we did to the car was in front of one of the guys from BMI staff, to make sure we did not make any changes. Shiv's lap top wasnt even in the car!!!!!!
There were alot of cars there, the testing between classes were done the same. A driver would take one of the cars out, come back and hop into another car. There was no difference between the first group of classes versus the second group. The only time both drivers took each car out was during the finals.
In the end people had fun and I'm sure it will make a great DVD. I just wish the rules would have been more clear. They didnt even need to be set in stone, but at least keep them out of the vanilla pudding...
Jerry
There was a huge issue I had with the NA RWD class. We had the fastest time behind the not-very-flashy M3 that handled very very well. Our class was eliminated from the whole event all together. When I asked Masa about this part, his only reply was "I have no idea what is going on right now." Go figure. I found the owner of the M3, and he said that they didnt want his car to appear in the finals because it was not as exciting. I guess we'll see what the actual event will look on the DVD. No matter what, it was foul play somewhere along the road.
As to what happened with John Mueller's car, it was unfortunate to say the least. Watching that car fly around the track was definately a sight to see, and it WAS COMPLIANT TO THE RULES!!!!! Congrats to you guys for building a awsome car along with all the greeat cars at the event.
In defense of the hose popping off with the Vishnu car, I asked Masa as well about this. He said that there was no official time on the car yet, and if it was a simple fix (I.E. no motors/turbos/trannys being pulled out) then we could get back in the event as long as they were still doing the initial testing. Once we got the hose back on and put zip ties on the make sure vacuum line would not pop off. The test driving that Shiv did was to ensure the hose would not pop off under full boost and constant on-off throttle situations. No other changes were made to the car power, suspension, or tire wise. All the work we did to the car was in front of one of the guys from BMI staff, to make sure we did not make any changes. Shiv's lap top wasnt even in the car!!!!!!
There were alot of cars there, the testing between classes were done the same. A driver would take one of the cars out, come back and hop into another car. There was no difference between the first group of classes versus the second group. The only time both drivers took each car out was during the finals.
In the end people had fun and I'm sure it will make a great DVD. I just wish the rules would have been more clear. They didnt even need to be set in stone, but at least keep them out of the vanilla pudding...
Jerry
"BTW - I agree again on the tire issue. I ran 205/50/15 tires (front) and 225/50/15 (rear), and like you, had a realtively full interior with power windows, door locks, and an alarm system (no stereo though). The fact that I ran a 1:05 on a 205 series tire IMO speaks volumes about any bogus "subjective" decisions based on anything other than video marketing.
"
-- DavidV
why did you choose such a small tire size... there was no restriction on size.. just type. we ran a 255 which was very small comapred to others.. most evos used 275-295 We should have used a bigger tire as well but you run what you come with.
"
-- DavidV
why did you choose such a small tire size... there was no restriction on size.. just type. we ran a 255 which was very small comapred to others.. most evos used 275-295 We should have used a bigger tire as well but you run what you come with.
Last edited by Vishnu_Evo8; Dec 21, 2005 at 05:40 PM.
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From: south colton
Originally Posted by IE Evo
Sore loser--get over it. U still Rule the Streets.
seriously did you buy that 9 yet you p*ssy?