ok i understand that but iam talking about the same gear.
in my case its 3erd gear
if you floor it in 3erd gear you get a diff afr# then starting from 2nd gear to 3erd gear again??
why is this?

 

It could be any number of load or momentum variables. Are you starting at the same rpm are you at the same boost is the turbo spooled or spooling. I wouldn't worry about that as much as running lean at peak HP with max advance.

 

Your AFR reads 12.40 at the cursor line in the middle of the WOT run. That is almost the same thing on the chart I posted at the beginning of this thread. Can you tell us what your AFR was at 500 rpm intervals starting with 3000 rpm?

I would really appreciate the breakdown by rpm.

 

Here you go.....


RPM___AFR___BOOST (lbs)
3600__13.1__5.3
4000__12.3__20.2
4500__12.7__19.5
5000__12.6__20.1
5500__12.4__20.2
6000__12.2__19.8
6500__12.5__19.1
7000__12.2__18.4

 

Tell me your running the OEM drop-in filter and I'll believe it may be a little on the lean side without speculating where your wb02 is.

If you really have an aftermarket drop-in filter (says in your sig you do though), you probably won't see your afr where you want it with an off the shelf map.

 

The K&N drop-in filter had NO IMPACT on the AFR of this off-the-shelf map. I did two runs with a K&N filter and two run with the stock filter and did not see much of a difference. Go back and read the first two pages of this thread and you will see the charts that I posted.

So far:

1. It is not the filter
2. It is not the wideband. Evo Kid, jr, Jeff, and I are getting similar lean readings. I use LM-1 innovate, Evo_Kid uses Zeitronix, and jr uses AEM Uego. All these different widebnads are logging AFRs in the 12-12.5 range.

 

OK, then whats the actual timing curve look like? If its not dipping at all or going down numerically the cars running fine. You won't burn anything up, your making good power and getting good gas mileage

 

First, all my logs are off my 05 EVO VIII, which i dont have anymore.

I was using the HKS drop-in, but like nj said, different panel filter dont relly mess with AFR.

I didnt have anything to log timing, so I didnt know the timing curve. I was loggin knock using a vishnu knock buffer (please no debates on if that method works or not, in reguards to real knock), and there was "knock" in the logs also (I removed that data from the log so it was more clear).

 

According to this independent test an aftermarket drop in filter did cause AFR to go leaner.

http://www.norcalevo.net/index.php?o...2&topic=8840.0

 

Well, first you are not going to get good gas mileage from tuning at 12:1 when cruising. When you are cruising you are in closed loop and you are at 14.7:1. To get beeter gas mileage you will have to find a way to run at 15.2:1 and that will give you the best gas mileage. If you can figure out how to tune closed loop so I can run at 15.2:1 while cruising, then please tell me.

Second, Here are the timing logs of the off-theshelf maps before I richened them up to 11.5:1. The first one has a 4 degree pull at 5300 rpm.

RPM,Timing,O2
2383.0, 24.0, 0.58
2473.0, 16.0, 0.82
2594.0, 14.0, 0.86
2715.0, 13.0, 0.88
2875.0, 11.0, 0.9
3035.0, 8.0, 0.9
3211.0, 5.0, 0.92
3422.0, 4.0, 0.94
3699.0, 2.0, 0.94
3969.0, 3.0, 0.94
4270.0, 6.0, 0.94
4535.0, 7.0, 0.92
4840.0, 7.0, 0.92
5063.0, 8.0, 0.92
5332.0, 5.0, 0.92
5578.0, 4.0, 0.94
5809.0, 6.0, 0.94
6039.0, 8.0, 0.94
6281.0, 10.0, 0.92
6504.0, 12.0, 0.92
6734.0, 15.0, 0.94
6957.0, 16.0, 0.94
7148.0, 17.0, 0.94



RPM, Timing, O2
2961.0, 19.0, 0.88
3188.0, 14.0, 0.92
3434.0, 7.0, 0.92
3785.0, 5.0, 0.94
4133.0, 4.0, 0.92
4516.0, 5.0, 0.92
4871.0, 7.0, 0.92
5254.0, 8.0, 0.92
5555.0, 8.0, 0.92
5879.0, 9.0, 0.92
6180.0, 12.0, 0.92
6500.0, 15.0, 0.92
6762.0, 15.0, 0.92
6988.0, 17.0, 0.92

 

just to compare logs here is a log i have for the 91oct off the shelfmap v360
in this run i didnt have timing get pulled back:
Time,RPM,Timing,O2 1 Bank 1,O2 Trim 1 Bank 1

00:09.27,4031.0,8.0,0.9,0.0

00:09.59,4297.0,6.0,0.92,0.0

00:09.89,4531.0,9.0,0.9,0.0

00:10.21,4820.0,10.0,0.9,0.0

00:10.52,5063.0,11.0,0.92,0.0

00:10.81,5359.0,11.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.13,5590.0,12.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.44,5863.0,13.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.76,6098.0,16.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.06,6328.0,18.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.39,6563.0,20.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.68,6793.0,22.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.98,6984.0,21.0,0.92,0.0

00:13.30,7191.0,23.0,0.92,0.0

2nd log:

Time,RPM,Timing,O2 1 Bank 1,O2 Trim 1 Bank 1

00:03.71,4293.0,8.0,0.92,0.0

00:04.03,4586.0,10.0,0.92,0.0

00:04.32,4828.0,10.0,0.92,0.0

00:04.63,5094.0,10.0,0.92,0.0

00:04.96,5344.0,9.0,0.92,0.0

00:05.26,5547.0,7.0,0.94,0.0

00:05.57,5781.0,9.0,0.94,0.0

00:05.88,6004.0,11.0,0.94,0.0

00:06.19,6230.0,14.0,0.94,0.0

00:06.50,6426.0,16.0,0.94,0.0

00:06.80,6621.0,18.0,0.94,0.0

00:07.13,6816.0,18.0,0.94,0.0

00:07.44,6988.0,20.0,0.94,0.0

00:07.73,7156.0,19.0,0.94,0.0

00:08.05,7309.0,20.0,0.94,0.0

00:08.35,7477.0,20.0,0.94,0.0

in this log i had timing pulled 5300 and 5500 and at 7100rpm the most it pulled was a 2* which is acceptable.
so maybe shiv's tunning methods are similar to klause!

 

nj i asked dustin about the timing beig pulled back and he said that 2* is acceptable and that at 5000rpms the car is more knock prone so its part of the stock ecu or tuner to pull timing in those areas just to avoid knock.

 

That is good to know. I did notice that even on my recent stock logs w/o the Xede the ECU in some instance pulls 2* of timing.

The first timing log that I posted, however, has 3-4* timing pull (highlighted in blue), but it did not repeat itself in the second pull, so it is possible that it is an isolated incedent due to enviornmental conditions.

For the reccord, though, after I added 4% fuel to the off-the-shelf map I did not see more than 1-2* timing pull which is pretty normal according to Dustin.

Here is the log from the second run:

RPM, Timing
2668.0, 21.0
2797.0, 17.0
2879.0, 16.0
3000.0, 15.0
3152.0, 11.0
3289.0, 8.0
3461.0, 6.0
3629.0, 5.0
3855.0, 2.0
4098.0, 4.0
4305.0, 5.0
4477.0, 6.0
4719.0, 6.0
4879.0, 7.0
5086.0, 8.0
5301.0, 9.0
5484.0, 8.0
5625.0, 9.0
5809.0, 11.0
6000.0, 12.0
6117.0, 13.0
6313.0, 15.0
6453.0, 17.0
6621.0, 19.0
6738.0, 20.0
6867.0, 21.0
7004.0, 22.0
7129.0, 23.0

 

Thats some good advance

 

i think it all comes down on what afr#'s people want to have. after talking to shiv and dustin about the maps i would say that the base maps are worth it and are a good starting point to fine tune your evo also ive been running for a year or so with 12.-12.5afrs on 3er gear pulls and i have pushed my car to its limits and i havent had any problems with my car.
if people just want to have an 11.0-11.5afr curve then just add 4% to the whole fuel table and your done but i would like to know if someone has actually gone to a dyno and has had the the basemaps and then add the 4%of fuel just to see the diff in power and i would believe that it wont be that much but who knows??