Buschur/Dynoflash/SMC alky kit problem?
Hey give Shiv a break. Lets work together to find out how to extract the most out of out injection systems. He has a dyno and i'm sure he is able to provide a lot of valuable information regarding the subject.
Originally Posted by cfdfireman1
You’re asking to believe that your evo is running partially on fission? 

Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
David,
This is the part that I absolutely don't understand, You said that 50% water and 50% methanol did not gain much at all and that you basicly lost a full day of tunning.
Well, I have the complete oposite feedback from a guy(Bishiboy) in this forum that actually has a water kit (coolingmist to be specific) and runs a mix (50%/50%) of water and methanol plus it was tuned by Al.
From what Bishiboy told me over the phone his car runs unreal, not a single issue of detonation and a huge improvement in power and performance.
What is my conclusion of this? Well you guys please tell me.. It is all about the tunning and the tuner? Why Buschur Racing says that they did not get any power gains on a mixture of water methanol when actually a customer with a EVO, a cooling mist using water and methanol and tuned by Al makes the car superfast?
Bishiboy please give us your feedback as you gave me the feedback over the phone.
50c
This is the part that I absolutely don't understand, You said that 50% water and 50% methanol did not gain much at all and that you basicly lost a full day of tunning.
Well, I have the complete oposite feedback from a guy(Bishiboy) in this forum that actually has a water kit (coolingmist to be specific) and runs a mix (50%/50%) of water and methanol plus it was tuned by Al.
From what Bishiboy told me over the phone his car runs unreal, not a single issue of detonation and a huge improvement in power and performance.
What is my conclusion of this? Well you guys please tell me.. It is all about the tunning and the tuner? Why Buschur Racing says that they did not get any power gains on a mixture of water methanol when actually a customer with a EVO, a cooling mist using water and methanol and tuned by Al makes the car superfast?
Bishiboy please give us your feedback as you gave me the feedback over the phone.
50c
I, personaly, have found that the jetting of a specific alcohol injection kit is critical when deciding what to inject with it
As we all know water is not a fuel
Alcohol on the other hand is a fuel.
One of the main ways in which I can make more power with alcohol is that you can run more alcohol - (richer) - and be closer to an ideal burn mixture
I strongly disagree with the concept of trying to run high 12 / 1 a/f ratios or higher with water injection in an attempt to extract additional power on a street driven car.
As we all know if you add too much water the car will bog.
With alcohol - you can run a significantly richer a/f ratio and be making the same power.
What I am trying to say is that if you are using a kit designed as a WATER injection kit - such as the aquamist kits which are great units - actually fantastic units then working with 100% water is a great idea
On the other hand - if you use a kit designed as an alochol injection unit such as the Buschur Racing kit with significant amounts of water - you may reach the threshold where there is too much water and you loose power
To simplify matters - water injection is great
mixing 50 / 50 % water and alcohol is great
running 100 % alcohol is the best - IN MY OPINION
Everyone is entitled to his / her own opinion
Here is some great data I found on the benefits of alcohol as a fuel
On the surface, the difference between alcohol and gasoline might appear relatively minor: Alcohol contains oxygen, while gasoline doesn't. In reality, however, the dissimilarities are far more complex than that. Additionally, under compression - as is the case in an engine's combustion chamber - things get even more complicated ... but we'll get more into detail on these points later.
Regardless of the inherent differences between gasoline and alcohol, though, the fact is that alcohols make ideal motor fuels. The first practical internal combustion engine - patented by Nikolaus Otto in 1877 - ran on alcohol (gasoline had not been "discovered" yet), and the Model A Ford, produced from 1928 to 1931, was designed to burn a variety of fuels ... alcohol being one of them. In addition, Studebaker trucks built for export in the 1930's (and various domestic tractors sold both in the U.S. and abroad) were offered with either gasoline or alcohol fuel systems. (Indeed, at the start of the "motorized era", alcohol was just as common as - if not more so than - fossil fuels. But as time went on, the petroleum industry - which was organized and thus more powerful than the independent, often farm-based alcohol producers - lobbied successfully for the wholesale use of "superior" gasoline fuels. Strangely enough, in areas where petroleum had to be exclusively imported, or during time of war when gasoline supplies were rationed, alcohol suddenly became an excellent motor fuel again ... and was touted as such by the petroleum distributors who were selling it!)
Be that as it may, alcohol has characteristics that make it a natural engine fuel: [1] It has a high “octane" rating, which prevents engine detonation (knock) under load, [2] it burns clean ... so clean, in fact, that not only are noxious emissions drastically reduced, but the internal parts of the engine are purged of carbon and gum deposits ... which, of course, do not build up as long as alcohol is used as fuel, [3] an alcohol burning engine tends to run cooler than its gasoline-powered counterpart, thus extending engine life and reducing the chance of overheating.
At this point, we can detail exactly how these and other characteristics of alcohol affect engine performance.
"OCTANE" RATING
Actually, when referring to alcohol fuels, the word "octane" does not apply, since octane (in its pure form) is merely the hydrocarbon in gasoline which is assigned the numerical value of 100 for fuel-rating purposes. The octane number given automotive fuels is really an indication of the ability of the fuel to resist premature detonation within the combustion chamber. (Premature detonation, or engine knock, comes about when the fuel/air mixture ignites spontaneously toward the end of the compression stroke because of intense heat and pressure within the combustion chamber. Since the spark plug is supposed to ignite the mixture at a slightly later point in the engine cycle, pre-ignition is undesirable, and can actually damage or even ruin an engine.)
Because a high compression ratio in an engine results in more power per stroke, greater efficiency, and better economy, it's easy to see why a fuel that resists pre-ignition even under high compression conditions is especially desirable ... and alcohol is, on the average, about 16 points higher on the research octane scale than premium gasoline.
HEAT VALUE
The heating value of a fuel is a measure of how much energy we can get from it on a per-unit basis, be it pounds or gallons. When comparing alcohol to gasoline using this "measuring stick", it's obvious that ethanol contains only about 63% of the energy that gasoline does ... mainly because of the presence of oxygen in the alcohol's structure. But since alcohol undergoes different changes as it's vaporized and compressed in an engine, the outright heating value of the ethanol isn't as important when it's used as a motor fuel.
The fact that there's oxygen in the alcohol's structure also means that this fuel will naturally be "leaner" in comparison to gasoline fuel without making any changes to the jets in the carburetor. This is one reason why we must enrich the air/fuel mixture (add more fuel) when burning alcohol by increasing the size of the jets, which we'll discuss further in another section.
VOLATILITY
The volatility of a fuel refers to its ability to be vaporized. This is an important factor, because if vaporization doesn't occur readily, the fuel can't be evenly mixed with air and is of little value in an engine. Some substances that are highly volatile can't easily be used as a motor fuel ... and others, which have excellent heating value, aren't volatile enough to be used in an engine (such as tars and waxes).
Another point to keep in mind is that a very volatile fuel is potentially dangerous, because of the chance of explosion from heat or sparks. This is one reason why alcohol, with a higher flash point than gasoline, is a much safer automotive fuel ... especially considering that the average car's storage tank is really quite vulnerable.
LATENT HEAT OF VAPORIZATION
Latent heat of vaporization is the phenomenon that results in an alcohol-powered engine's running cooler than its gasoline-fueled counterpart. When a substance is about to undergo a change in form (from a liquid to a vapor, in this case), it must absorb a certain amount of additional heat from its surroundings in order for the change to take place. Since alcohol must absorb roughly 2-1/2 times the amount of heat that gasoline does, and the heat naturally is taken from the engine block, the engine should operate at a much lower temperature ... in theory, that is.
What happens in reality is that the alcohol/air mixture doesn't have time to absorb all the heat it could during its short trip through the engine manifold. So instead of running 2-1/2 times cooler on alcohol than it does on gasoline (which, by the way, would not be desirable ... since an engine must retain a certain amount of heat to run efficiently), the engine operates at temperatures only slightly cooler - about 20-40 deg F lower, depending on the specific engine when using alcohol fuel.
EXHAUST EMISSIONS
When gasoline is burned in an engine, it produces carbon monoxide and other poisonous fumes ... mostly because of the fact that the fuel never combusts completely, and also because it's subjected to extreme temperatures and pressures. In addition, as we mentioned before, gasoline is a complex mixture of many substances ... and some of those substances are lead, sulfur, and other noxious materials. These, too, add to the contaminative effects of the engine's exhaust fumes.
Alcohol, on the other hand, burns much cleaner. Even though it, too, never combusts completely, the volume of noxious fumes is drastically reduced in an alcohol-burning engine ... because alcohol contains oxygen in its structure (which means more thorough combustion) but doesn't contain all the other pollutants necessary as additives in gasoline.
For comparison purposes, MOTHER's researchers ran tests on a 1978 Chevrolet taxicab ... which, operating in New York City, was subject to some of the most stringent pollution controls in the nation. (In order for cabs to be licensed, they must undergo - and pass - four scheduled EPA tests a year for carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons emissions.) Naturally, the taxi that MOTHER's crew tested was a lot less polluting than the average American automobile, but even in perfect tune it just "squeaked by" the tests using gasoline ... registering nearly a 1-1/2% CO and a 200 parts per million HC exhaust content (both just under the legal limit).
With alcohol fuel, however, the test results improved enormously. Even with all pollution controls removed from the engine (except for the PCV valve), the cab registered a mere 0.08% CO and only 25 PPM of HC ... the equivalent of 95% less CO and 87.5% less HC, or a total of about 92% cleaner!
ALCOHOL/WATER MIX
As we all know (some of us from experience), water and gasoline don't mix. The gasoline tends to float to the top of the mixture, leaving the water to settle below it. In a car's fuel tank, this can be disastrous, particularly during the winter season.
Alcohol, however, mixes quite well with water: The water particles distribute evenly within the mixture. As a result, not only is the winter freezing problem solved, but pure alcohol is not necessary for fuel purposes. This is very important to the small-scale alcohol fuel producer, since nonindustrial stills are generally not capable of producing more than 192-proof (96% pure) alcohol.
As far as its use in an engine is concerned, MOTHER's researchers have had excellent results with various strengths of alcohol, from 160 proof to anhydrous (200 proof). Additional water added beyond the 20% limit causes the engine to hesitate and idle roughly ... hence that practice is not recommended. As an extra benefit, the water in the fuel helps cleanse and "lubricate" the internal parts of the engine, including the valve seats, piston head surfaces, and combustion chamber.
ENGINE ECONOMY
The fuel economy of an engine is directly proportional to how rich the air/fuel mixture is ... and that, of course, is dependent upon how large the main jet in the carburetor is. Alcohol requires a richer air/fuel mix than does gasoline (9-to-1 as opposed to 15-to-1), but that difference is not reflected proportionately with respect to economy ... partially due to the fact that alcohol has a higher "octane" rating and can be utilized more efficiently.
By experimenting with orifice sizes (diameters) of the carburetor's main jet, it is possible to reach a happy medium between power and economy in a standard auto engine using alcohol. Referring to the "Economy" chart that follows, you'll see that a 40% increase in diameter over the standard jet size in MOTHER's truck resulted in a loss of only 12% of the total fuel economy ... as compared to burning gasoline and using the standard jet (the truck was fully loaded in both cases).
Regardless of the inherent differences between gasoline and alcohol, though, the fact is that alcohols make ideal motor fuels. The first practical internal combustion engine - patented by Nikolaus Otto in 1877 - ran on alcohol (gasoline had not been "discovered" yet), and the Model A Ford, produced from 1928 to 1931, was designed to burn a variety of fuels ... alcohol being one of them. In addition, Studebaker trucks built for export in the 1930's (and various domestic tractors sold both in the U.S. and abroad) were offered with either gasoline or alcohol fuel systems. (Indeed, at the start of the "motorized era", alcohol was just as common as - if not more so than - fossil fuels. But as time went on, the petroleum industry - which was organized and thus more powerful than the independent, often farm-based alcohol producers - lobbied successfully for the wholesale use of "superior" gasoline fuels. Strangely enough, in areas where petroleum had to be exclusively imported, or during time of war when gasoline supplies were rationed, alcohol suddenly became an excellent motor fuel again ... and was touted as such by the petroleum distributors who were selling it!)
Be that as it may, alcohol has characteristics that make it a natural engine fuel: [1] It has a high “octane" rating, which prevents engine detonation (knock) under load, [2] it burns clean ... so clean, in fact, that not only are noxious emissions drastically reduced, but the internal parts of the engine are purged of carbon and gum deposits ... which, of course, do not build up as long as alcohol is used as fuel, [3] an alcohol burning engine tends to run cooler than its gasoline-powered counterpart, thus extending engine life and reducing the chance of overheating.
At this point, we can detail exactly how these and other characteristics of alcohol affect engine performance.
"OCTANE" RATING
Actually, when referring to alcohol fuels, the word "octane" does not apply, since octane (in its pure form) is merely the hydrocarbon in gasoline which is assigned the numerical value of 100 for fuel-rating purposes. The octane number given automotive fuels is really an indication of the ability of the fuel to resist premature detonation within the combustion chamber. (Premature detonation, or engine knock, comes about when the fuel/air mixture ignites spontaneously toward the end of the compression stroke because of intense heat and pressure within the combustion chamber. Since the spark plug is supposed to ignite the mixture at a slightly later point in the engine cycle, pre-ignition is undesirable, and can actually damage or even ruin an engine.)
Because a high compression ratio in an engine results in more power per stroke, greater efficiency, and better economy, it's easy to see why a fuel that resists pre-ignition even under high compression conditions is especially desirable ... and alcohol is, on the average, about 16 points higher on the research octane scale than premium gasoline.
HEAT VALUE
The heating value of a fuel is a measure of how much energy we can get from it on a per-unit basis, be it pounds or gallons. When comparing alcohol to gasoline using this "measuring stick", it's obvious that ethanol contains only about 63% of the energy that gasoline does ... mainly because of the presence of oxygen in the alcohol's structure. But since alcohol undergoes different changes as it's vaporized and compressed in an engine, the outright heating value of the ethanol isn't as important when it's used as a motor fuel.
The fact that there's oxygen in the alcohol's structure also means that this fuel will naturally be "leaner" in comparison to gasoline fuel without making any changes to the jets in the carburetor. This is one reason why we must enrich the air/fuel mixture (add more fuel) when burning alcohol by increasing the size of the jets, which we'll discuss further in another section.
VOLATILITY
The volatility of a fuel refers to its ability to be vaporized. This is an important factor, because if vaporization doesn't occur readily, the fuel can't be evenly mixed with air and is of little value in an engine. Some substances that are highly volatile can't easily be used as a motor fuel ... and others, which have excellent heating value, aren't volatile enough to be used in an engine (such as tars and waxes).
Another point to keep in mind is that a very volatile fuel is potentially dangerous, because of the chance of explosion from heat or sparks. This is one reason why alcohol, with a higher flash point than gasoline, is a much safer automotive fuel ... especially considering that the average car's storage tank is really quite vulnerable.
LATENT HEAT OF VAPORIZATION
Latent heat of vaporization is the phenomenon that results in an alcohol-powered engine's running cooler than its gasoline-fueled counterpart. When a substance is about to undergo a change in form (from a liquid to a vapor, in this case), it must absorb a certain amount of additional heat from its surroundings in order for the change to take place. Since alcohol must absorb roughly 2-1/2 times the amount of heat that gasoline does, and the heat naturally is taken from the engine block, the engine should operate at a much lower temperature ... in theory, that is.
What happens in reality is that the alcohol/air mixture doesn't have time to absorb all the heat it could during its short trip through the engine manifold. So instead of running 2-1/2 times cooler on alcohol than it does on gasoline (which, by the way, would not be desirable ... since an engine must retain a certain amount of heat to run efficiently), the engine operates at temperatures only slightly cooler - about 20-40 deg F lower, depending on the specific engine when using alcohol fuel.
EXHAUST EMISSIONS
When gasoline is burned in an engine, it produces carbon monoxide and other poisonous fumes ... mostly because of the fact that the fuel never combusts completely, and also because it's subjected to extreme temperatures and pressures. In addition, as we mentioned before, gasoline is a complex mixture of many substances ... and some of those substances are lead, sulfur, and other noxious materials. These, too, add to the contaminative effects of the engine's exhaust fumes.
Alcohol, on the other hand, burns much cleaner. Even though it, too, never combusts completely, the volume of noxious fumes is drastically reduced in an alcohol-burning engine ... because alcohol contains oxygen in its structure (which means more thorough combustion) but doesn't contain all the other pollutants necessary as additives in gasoline.
For comparison purposes, MOTHER's researchers ran tests on a 1978 Chevrolet taxicab ... which, operating in New York City, was subject to some of the most stringent pollution controls in the nation. (In order for cabs to be licensed, they must undergo - and pass - four scheduled EPA tests a year for carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons emissions.) Naturally, the taxi that MOTHER's crew tested was a lot less polluting than the average American automobile, but even in perfect tune it just "squeaked by" the tests using gasoline ... registering nearly a 1-1/2% CO and a 200 parts per million HC exhaust content (both just under the legal limit).
With alcohol fuel, however, the test results improved enormously. Even with all pollution controls removed from the engine (except for the PCV valve), the cab registered a mere 0.08% CO and only 25 PPM of HC ... the equivalent of 95% less CO and 87.5% less HC, or a total of about 92% cleaner!
ALCOHOL/WATER MIX
As we all know (some of us from experience), water and gasoline don't mix. The gasoline tends to float to the top of the mixture, leaving the water to settle below it. In a car's fuel tank, this can be disastrous, particularly during the winter season.
Alcohol, however, mixes quite well with water: The water particles distribute evenly within the mixture. As a result, not only is the winter freezing problem solved, but pure alcohol is not necessary for fuel purposes. This is very important to the small-scale alcohol fuel producer, since nonindustrial stills are generally not capable of producing more than 192-proof (96% pure) alcohol.
As far as its use in an engine is concerned, MOTHER's researchers have had excellent results with various strengths of alcohol, from 160 proof to anhydrous (200 proof). Additional water added beyond the 20% limit causes the engine to hesitate and idle roughly ... hence that practice is not recommended. As an extra benefit, the water in the fuel helps cleanse and "lubricate" the internal parts of the engine, including the valve seats, piston head surfaces, and combustion chamber.
ENGINE ECONOMY
The fuel economy of an engine is directly proportional to how rich the air/fuel mixture is ... and that, of course, is dependent upon how large the main jet in the carburetor is. Alcohol requires a richer air/fuel mix than does gasoline (9-to-1 as opposed to 15-to-1), but that difference is not reflected proportionately with respect to economy ... partially due to the fact that alcohol has a higher "octane" rating and can be utilized more efficiently.
By experimenting with orifice sizes (diameters) of the carburetor's main jet, it is possible to reach a happy medium between power and economy in a standard auto engine using alcohol. Referring to the "Economy" chart that follows, you'll see that a 40% increase in diameter over the standard jet size in MOTHER's truck resulted in a loss of only 12% of the total fuel economy ... as compared to burning gasoline and using the standard jet (the truck was fully loaded in both cases).
Last edited by DynoFlash; Nov 27, 2005 at 05:33 PM.
Abner,
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
right here
Originally Posted by meanmud
Fission? where do you see fission


Carlos, LISTEN TO ME! Put 50/50 in, if Al cannot make power out of it, I'll pay for your tune to have Nick from PD tune it for you! Al is confusing himself all over, saying 50/50 is as good as 100% MeOH and then change his opinion.
Carlos, your got a real fast car from the factory, all you need is a real good tuner to make it fly.
Carlos, your got a real fast car from the factory, all you need is a real good tuner to make it fly.
Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Abner,
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
Al,
You have the last word for next weekend. If I am looking for reliability, affordable price and absolutely no issues with detonation or car bogging down, what is the prefer liquid you recommend when you tune my car?
I care less if my car makes more power on 100% methanol, I am just looking for the most reliable, throuble free, no detonation no bog down tune. What do you think?
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
You have the last word for next weekend. If I am looking for reliability, affordable price and absolutely no issues with detonation or car bogging down, what is the prefer liquid you recommend when you tune my car?
I care less if my car makes more power on 100% methanol, I am just looking for the most reliable, throuble free, no detonation no bog down tune. What do you think?
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Abner,
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
I am completly lost at this point. I am having my car tune by Al next week and I want an intelligent answer. I wish all the reputable tuners could get me a feasible answer.
I was going to go with 50/50 water and alcohol or 50/50 water and methanol but after I just read that Buschur had a customer that did not make any significant power now I have my reservations.
Bishiboy had his car tuned by Al and he is using 50/50 water and methanol (on coolingmist) and he has seen huge improvements not to mention high boost and zero detonation.. so what is the deal?
Could it be that the customer car that Buschur tuned had other mechanical issues? leaky boost etc.
my .2c
If you run 50 / 50 % with the new jetting we have in that kit (assuming they sold you one with the # 7 jet) you will make almost as much power - however its not as much as with straight alcohol
Bishi boy's car ran very strong on 50 / 50 % - but it also ran really strong back in the day on staight 91 octane
I would not run any mix greater than 50% water with that kit
IMHO - the only advantage of running any water with the alcohol is to act as a saftey measure to make the mixture safter in the event of a crash
Straight alcohol is simply unreal in how much boost and timing you can run with a 100% total absense of any knock what so ever
You told me of someone you recently saw at a drag track trying to go fast with water injection and they ran into significant knock problems during their passes - you wonmt have this problem with alcohol
Originally Posted by SlowCar
Carlos, LISTEN TO ME! Put 50/50 in, if Al cannot make power out of it, I'll pay for your tune to have Nick from PD tune it for you! Al is confusing himself all over, saying 50/50 is as good as 100% MeOH and then change his opinion.
Carlos, your got a real fast car from the factory, all you need is a real good tuner to make it fly.
Carlos, your got a real fast car from the factory, all you need is a real good tuner to make it fly.

Thanks dude!! You are a nice friend. As you know already, I am very very happy with my car and the way that it runs after I did the Dynoflash custom Tunning.
I fully trust the reliable- throuble free skilled tunning from Al , I have no doubth so far to belive that he couldn't make power with my car. He has been working with the SMC for a long time. Please feel free to show up next Sunday to Vividracing and get to see the results. I will sponsor your food and gas, it will be nice to have you there.
As per the mixture, I will let Al recommend me what to get based on my criteria(affordable,reliable, obtainable everywhere,power potencial, etc)
Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Al,
You have the last word for next weekend. If I am looking for reliability, affordable price and absolutely no issues with detonation or car bogging down, what is the prefer liquid you recommend when you tune my car?
I care less if my car makes more power on 100% methanol, I am just looking for the most reliable, throuble free, no detonation no bog down tune. What do you think?
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
You have the last word for next weekend. If I am looking for reliability, affordable price and absolutely no issues with detonation or car bogging down, what is the prefer liquid you recommend when you tune my car?
I care less if my car makes more power on 100% methanol, I am just looking for the most reliable, throuble free, no detonation no bog down tune. What do you think?
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
1 - 100% methanol
2 - 100% denatured alcohol
3 - Mix of water and alcohol
Not my argument or my point.
Originally Posted by SlowCar
Hey give Shiv a break. Lets work together to find out how to extract the most out of out injection systems. He has a dyno and i'm sure he is able to provide a lot of valuable information regarding the subject. 

But do you believe he’s making horsepower by splitting H2O atoms in his engine?
Originally Posted by cfdfireman1
But do you believe he’s making horsepower by splitting H2O atoms in his engine?
Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Al,
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
The word on the streets is that the hard core 100% methanol eat the internals alive(all the rubbber, diafragm etc, etc)
It was David Buschur who first came up with the idea to try this technology in the Evos and who also comissioned the 1st SMC / Buschur Alcohol kit. I know that Mr. Buschur has a lot of turbo Buick experience and the turbo Buick community has been using these technology for many years.
Some Buicks have 200,000 miles on them with these kits.
The fact is that the kits - when installed and tuned as suggested are very reliable and trouble free.
You can read some great threads on this web site if you are interested in learning some real good info on alcohol injection in turbo cars
http://www.turbobuick.com/messagebd/
They have a spereate forum on alcohol injection
Here is a gem of a post by one of the gurus of alcohol injection - the guy who makes the alki control kit which AMS sells
My suggestion is straight alcohol. No OIL as it can cuase detonation..
But if the pump used needs oil for lubrication.. then a small amount must be run. On my pump.. no oil.
The water run deal.. if your goals are moderate.. run a mix if you so wish.
__________________
89 TTA Stock appearing
10.550 at 132.22 1.539 60ft 3850 race weight w/driver
Always on 93 octane
www.alkycontrol.com
727-526-9724
But if the pump used needs oil for lubrication.. then a small amount must be run. On my pump.. no oil.
The water run deal.. if your goals are moderate.. run a mix if you so wish.
__________________
89 TTA Stock appearing
10.550 at 132.22 1.539 60ft 3850 race weight w/driver
Always on 93 octane
www.alkycontrol.com
727-526-9724
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=169218
What can I say - I guess I am not the only guy out there who thinks the way I do on this subect ? Its funny to realize that the guys who share my opinion are all going super fast
Last edited by DynoFlash; Nov 27, 2005 at 06:15 PM.
Originally Posted by cfdfireman1
But do you believe he’s making horsepower by splitting H2O atoms in his engine?
Cfdfireman1
Maybe you can share with these gentlemen how your car runs on alcohol injection and any problems that you have had with your alcohol injection system thus far ?
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
What can I say - I guess I am not the only guy out there who thinks the way I do on this subect ? Its funny to realize that the guys who share my opinion are all going super fast
lol...whats super fast, Al? 10.4, 10.2, maybe 9.84 et?
J/k kidding big guy.
Great discussion, lots of good information. Nothing wrong with a friendly debate.
Last edited by fsugatorbait; Nov 27, 2005 at 06:21 PM.


