Project X - Water/Meth Install!
Sep 14, 2009, 01:02 AM
#21
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Use the following as a simple guide line:
- 100% water ........ 10-15% to fuel flow
- M50/W50 ......... 15-20% to fuel flow
- 100% methanol ........ 20-25% to fuel flow
You can go ourside those ratios but requires a more aggressive fuel trim.
- 100% water ........ 10-15% to fuel flow
- M50/W50 ......... 15-20% to fuel flow
- 100% methanol ........ 20-25% to fuel flow
You can go ourside those ratios but requires a more aggressive fuel trim.
Sep 14, 2009, 02:05 AM
#22
I must be missing something.
4x 560cc injectors (running *almost* flat out - 95% DC)
= 2240cc/min
50/50 MIX - so 20% replacement results in 448cc/min for the meth.
However the chart shows I should be using the 0.8 injector nozzle for 20-25psi of boost...
So I don't really understand what the requirements are for the second nozzle - is it when you require more flow than the 1.0 nozzle can supply?
4x 560cc injectors (running *almost* flat out - 95% DC)
= 2240cc/min
50/50 MIX - so 20% replacement results in 448cc/min for the meth.
However the chart shows I should be using the 0.8 injector nozzle for 20-25psi of boost...
So I don't really understand what the requirements are for the second nozzle - is it when you require more flow than the 1.0 nozzle can supply?
Sep 14, 2009, 07:12 PM
#23
Tephra, check out the alky flow calculator I posted in this section a while back, it will help you decide how much to run. I ran a single 1.0mm jet on a stock IX turbo and it worked out fantastic. On the BBK setup I'm running a 1.0mm & a .9mm jet. Remember that injecting near the TB will increase effective octane, and further from the TB will increase effective charge cooling. I decided to compromise and continue to run the one near the TB (ran my 1.0mm at this location) and run a second further down the UICP just under the intake, in front of the tranny. I figured this gave me the best of both worlds. IMHO you should consider running something like 2x .5mm jets in a similar fashion. Doing much more than that will be overkill--this isn't necessarily bad, but it definitely eats through your supply tank(s) more quickly!
As far as tank mounting, I'd just look for some 1x 1/8" lengths of aluminum and mount the tanks to that. Check out some of the installs by SlowCar (abner) on here, lots of great mounting ideas that I think could apply to the space in the X that is already sectioned off--especially if you installed a mini-battery!
As far as tank mounting, I'd just look for some 1x 1/8" lengths of aluminum and mount the tanks to that. Check out some of the installs by SlowCar (abner) on here, lots of great mounting ideas that I think could apply to the space in the X that is already sectioned off--especially if you installed a mini-battery!
Sep 14, 2009, 11:23 PM
#25
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I must be missing something.
4x 560cc injectors (running *almost* flat out - 95% DC)
= 2240cc/min
50/50 MIX - so 20% replacement results in 448cc/min for the meth.
However the chart shows I should be using the 0.8 injector nozzle for 20-25psi of boost...
So I don't really understand what the requirements are for the second nozzle - is it when you require more flow than the 1.0 nozzle can supply?
4x 560cc injectors (running *almost* flat out - 95% DC)
= 2240cc/min
50/50 MIX - so 20% replacement results in 448cc/min for the meth.
However the chart shows I should be using the 0.8 injector nozzle for 20-25psi of boost...
So I don't really understand what the requirements are for the second nozzle - is it when you require more flow than the 1.0 nozzle can supply?
The chart on the HFS-6 is the maximum size jet without a tune. I don't think if will suit you.
Sep 14, 2009, 11:26 PM
#26
Hi Richard,
what do you mean by "without a tune"?
*confused*
ok lets start again.
If I know:
a) injector size + number (560/4 @ 95% IDC)
b) max boost pressure (25 peak, 20 @ redline)
c) meth mix and replacement % (50/50 Mix, 20% replacement)
How do I:
a) calculate what nozzle size I need?
b) tell whether I need 1 or 2 nozzles?
c) tell if I need a restrictor or not?
Cheers
David
what do you mean by "without a tune"?
*confused*
ok lets start again.
If I know:
a) injector size + number (560/4 @ 95% IDC)
b) max boost pressure (25 peak, 20 @ redline)
c) meth mix and replacement % (50/50 Mix, 20% replacement)
How do I:
a) calculate what nozzle size I need?
b) tell whether I need 1 or 2 nozzles?
c) tell if I need a restrictor or not?
Cheers
David
Last edited by tephra; Sep 14, 2009 at 11:37 PM.
Sep 14, 2009, 11:44 PM
#27
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Hi Richard,
ok lets start again.
If I know:
a) injector size + number (560/4 @ 95% IDC)
b) max boost pressure (25 peak, 20 @ redline)
c) meth mix and replacement % (50/50 Mix, 20% replacement)
How do I:
a) calculate what nozzle size I need?
b) tell whether I need 1 or 2 nozzles?
c) tell if I need a restrictor or not?
Cheers
David
ok lets start again.
If I know:
a) injector size + number (560/4 @ 95% IDC)
b) max boost pressure (25 peak, 20 @ redline)
c) meth mix and replacement % (50/50 Mix, 20% replacement)
How do I:
a) calculate what nozzle size I need?
b) tell whether I need 1 or 2 nozzles?
c) tell if I need a restrictor or not?
Cheers
David
a) I can only recommend jet sizes in general that will not affect an engine without a tune for obvious reasons.
b) Without tune- 1 nozzle. With tune- anythings goes - 2 noxzzles for sure
c) Restrictor used is for match the final niozzle size. This is to keep the dynamic range linear.
The current FCM is capable of injeting 1600cc/min. Way beyond a two-jet setup. Without matching the restrictor, you will over inject at low duty cycle. We might reduce the flow of the FCM in the near future. We have a few problems with people getting a good lineraity with one jet. I think 1000cc/min is good enough for most applictaions.
We have design the valve's pressure and flow capability a bit too far.
Sep 14, 2009, 11:58 PM
#28
and by tune - you mean fiddling with AFR/timing/boost/mivec?
Well I thought it was fairly obvious that you need to tune for water/meth to get the most out of it.
So I will be having a tune
ok so going back to my specific application - the chart shows I should use a 0.8 jet:
560 * 4 = 2240
20% replacement = 2240 * 0.20 = 448cc
160 - 25psi, and find closest to 448 = 0.8 jet.
Is that correct for single jet?
So If I want to run 2x jet's instead of 1, do I just get 2 smaller jets to still make up roughly 448cc/min for my boost level?
ie 2x 0.4 jet (@25psi) = 430cc/min
Well I thought it was fairly obvious that you need to tune for water/meth to get the most out of it.
So I will be having a tune
ok so going back to my specific application - the chart shows I should use a 0.8 jet:
560 * 4 = 2240
20% replacement = 2240 * 0.20 = 448cc
160 - 25psi, and find closest to 448 = 0.8 jet.
Is that correct for single jet?
So If I want to run 2x jet's instead of 1, do I just get 2 smaller jets to still make up roughly 448cc/min for my boost level?
ie 2x 0.4 jet (@25psi) = 430cc/min
Sep 15, 2009, 12:01 AM
#29
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Slowcar (abner) is a fine example, he ran 2x 1mm jet on an 100% methanol "on/off" system, stock turbo. With a tune, He gained something like 40HP and 70 TQ.
Last edited by Richard L; Sep 15, 2009 at 12:13 AM.