Talonboost

Gee, at that rate, if you were invited to run that thing at the 24 Heures du Mans, you could run it there, fly it back home in your private transport airplane, and flog it for another 3 weekends with only oil changes in-between. Just what I'm looking for!

Benja

Anyone running the 7163 in T25 flange on a Evo yet?

RWD4G63

T25 is kind of pointless when it comes in V-band, yes?

I was reading through the EFR thread on NASIOC and came across this interesting quote that Geoff posted from the lead engineer at BW:

"The point of the 7163 was to have a small and light turbo (B1 frame) that will squeak out ~500hp while still spooling/transient as close to a stock-sized turbo as possible.

That being said, if you separate the topics of spool versus transient response - the inertia difference of 7163 vs. 7064 vs. 7670 is significant. We have B2 EFR turbos for people that want bigger power levels! The twinscroll 7163 isn’t for the dynochart crowd, it’s to squeak out 500hp and still feel awesome at 2500rpm. I fully expect a singlescroll 7163 IWG or 7163 EWG to make more top end power. And yes, a 7064C will also make more top end power (especially at very high rpm where dP is more harmful) "

URQaudiguy

Back to back with our Longitude TTRS based 2.5L 5 cylinder swap into an original Quattro. Some of the details are in this article, but the basics of it are

-stock head/cams/valves(stock cams are done at 6800, they are awful)
-9.5:1 compression
-e85
-1300cc injectors
-custom manifolds
-Vems standalone

Some more details are in this article: http://theprojectpad.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1032

Doesn't matter though. Here is the money shot, and that is both a HTA3582r on a .82 AR TiAL housing compared to a EFR7163 on a vband in/out EWG. Same day tuning, same heating sequence on hot header to get spool proper. Both ran at 310kpa at Las Vegas 2000ft on a Land and Sea AWD dyno. Our dyno reads around 4% lower than Mustangs. Again doesnt matter, what matters is just the delta's between the two turbos and it kindof expalins how this little package acts. Dotted is HTA3582r, solid is EFR7163. Both turbos taper due to cams, but the EFR is down to around 270kpa by 7000, where the HTA is able to keep around 285kpa.



No speed sensor installed, though we will have that data soon. With high DC on the controller up top, we are obviously over spinning the little guy.

It makes a much more comfortable 450whp at 220kpa here.



Fairly low load pulls, so the turbos seem laggier than road. I have several road logs with 290kpa by 3800 on the EFR in 3rd gear. As you can see, the off boost is better all around on the smaller EFR.

Anyway, thought I'd contribute to the thread.

Cheers

Hank

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

Nice to see more 7163 results. Thanks for the dyno data.

MrLith

Nice, cheers for that - I am not blown away by what I am seeing there, do you have boost curves for the two turbos so I can put a bit more stock in it?

What I am seeing is 2-300rpm better spool than a turbo which is making a substantial amount more power while using a boost curve which relative to itself is much less aggressive. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

It's still a better match if you aren't aiming for the higher power potential of the HTA3582 (which doesn't look like is being fully utilised even there?) but lb for lb I feel a bit like the HTA is equal or better, and that an HTA3076 would make for a very interesting comparison with the EFR7163.

URQaudiguy

You bet. Nothing wrong with a little more data.

Here is 7163 on a 2.2L 5 cylinder compared to .82 HTA3076r. Same day comparisons with nothing changed but the turbo.



Same day tests @240kpa on 15 second pulls on e85. Again, the load isn't totally perfect for the streets but the deltas are telling. The 7163 is matching spool within 100 rpm but making 30-40whp more once on boost. Not surprising since we are comparing a 5454 to a 5757.






Of the 7163 log on the 2.5 TTRS based motor, here it is showing the spool in 3rd on the street.


I love the hta3582r. I think it is a fantastic little freak. We use a lot of FP products and we love them all. This EFR is kindof an interesting app. It feels much more alive on the street. If you look at the off boost, it is 30-40wtq on the 3582 and gets up to 60 difference on the ramp up. The difference ends up being more like 400 or so. Like EVOs, we see mid to high 600s AWD on the HTA3582r, where I think the 7163 is pretty much off the map at around 530/540 where we stopped.

Other interesting notes, no surge, even with no anti surge housing. The 2.5" inlet is really nice for packaging.

URQaudiguy

Sorry didn't see you asked for boost curves. I don't have them overlayed, but here is the log from that EFR run. The cursor line is at the end showing the drop to 270kpa, but the peak is 310kpa.

khmerpimpin

iTrader: (20)

Interesting to see the 7163 being pushed, i was hoping it was capablie of a solid 550whp on a evo. Looks like in order to achive those results it will need to be pushed quite a bit

URQaudiguy

We will push it a little more with a speed sensor being fed into the ecu. Other thing is the mechanical awd in the audi longitude is Torsen center diff and drainer for drive train loss. We lose 23% plus or minus depending on tire, where haldex clutch pack couplers like the ttrs or a3 drain only 18ish. My hunch is evos will touch 550whp with this turbo.

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

I as well think 550 whp will be it for the 7163 on E85. Wheel dimensions and matchbot both suggest about 550 whp max, and there are one or two WRX builds that are approaching 550 whp. For sure, 550 whp will be a max effort condition with an unfavorable exhaust manifold pressure. That power level would probably be ok for quick street work, but for extended efforts, 480-500 whp will likely be a safe tune.

mastermind evo

Thats a beautiful installlation and setup in the pic of the Audi 80. I have an S2 and used it for Hillclimbs for over 15 yrs. I upgraded the RS2 spec to the 034s 3071 setup, which gave more HP but i felt it lost a bit of its midrange urgency.

Over the past couple of years I have used my Evo9 for Hillclimbs and the S2 stays safe at home. I have been procrastinating on which turbo to buy for my Evo. I was set on the 7670 but when i read about the 7163, I decided to wait and see how it does as I was looking at a 500whp setup. I greatly appreciate you sharing your experience.

URQaudiguy

Thanks. It is actually a 83 ur quattro we did, but hard to tell from those angles. It is a fun 450whp daily driver for the owner.



I daily drove the EFR 7163 in a 2.2L for almost a month @ 23psi, and it is everything the 3071r is and more. At the price point, I think this turbo makes the GT30r anything obsolete. That is what is on the car now(gtx3071r), and even with a .63 housing, I think the 7163 is more fun on the street and would be faster on any track/circuit. Very responsive off boost and smooth power.

I am still quite fond of the HTA3582r. I think it is a fantastic turbo. I have 4 of them on my desk right now on their way out to customers. Let me know if I can help at all on the s2 project. Nobody in the world builds more i5 tube headers than we do at this point for the VAG engines.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

some nice 7163 data. especially compared to HTA turbos on same engine. dont sell the airflow short yet. that configuration hta3582 on an evo makes 700whp on e85 without trying hard. and there are a dozen who have publicly pushed hta3076 to 600whp as well. the 4g63 is king at making power per airflow. from this data it looks like the 7163 will be capable of 600whp on an evo.

mastermind evo

Thats an immaculate build, well done.

I was also been considering the GTX 3576 which may have better response than the HTA 3582, thats just my theory so will need to chat to someone with practical experience. However the efr 7163 on an Evo looks good to run my target of 500whp at 24psi. Part throttle response provides great fun on the tricky sections of hillclimbs although I may still loose out a little to the boys with their GTX 35's who run in my 4cyl road car class.