And when it gets into detail he/she is only stating their opinions with facts. Is anyone actually trying to help the person decide? Or should they just keep reading and learn about each others rivals and history of the companies.

 

Did I state any problems associated with Mitsubishi in my original comment? No, I said the TC-SST is a potential limitation, something that even vendors are saying. The engine in the WRX is not a limitation, there are simply some engines with problems. Again, this wasn't relevant since literally, all I did was suggest the OP drive a variety of cars in order to make his decision. That's it, nothing more. I have no idea why the **** this thread had to turn into a gong show. It's the same **** over and over again. As soon as someone says WRX, someone has to say "oh my god, they explode all the time". What are Mitsubishi people going to do when this problem ends? It's irrelevant to the thread, it doesn't help the OP and frankly, it's getting annoying. It's as bad as NASIOC with the damn gas pedal.

 

Is anyone trying to help me decide?

No, surely you are not. As per the one person who did help me, this is a new tranny for mitsu? I was under the impression it was the tranny from the Evo 9, is that not the case? Is it then the AWD system that was borrowed from the Evo 9? I am so confused as to the tech on this car..

edit: amby, whoever you are, you are contributing just as much to the argueing as everyone else. Why dont all of you shut up and address the purpose of this thread?

 

Why do you think I've been saying for the last 4 or 5 pages that this crap is irrelevant? I swear at times this place is like a broken record. The words WRX and STI should be added to the swear filter so people don't always have to jump on them like a fat kid on cake.

 

But sometimes a lot of people think you seem to be comparing that a gas pedal is the same as a engine. And frankly why can't anyone say that the WRX engine has failures?? I just think that you have to start a riot when someone states facts.

 

I have been trying to get people to stop with this anti-Subaru BS but it's impossible on here (as you can clearly see).
I stand by my original comment (that apparently requires pages upon pages of arguing even though it wasn't controversial), test drive a variety of vehicles and decide which is right for you. It's a matter of what you want out of the car. If you want speed for cheap, the WRX is probably the best right now. It's the fastest AWD car you can buy without stepping up to the Evo or STI. It also doesn't have a luxurious interior, it's not the most comfortable car to drive and it eats gas. The Ralliart is a possibility if you want something that anyone can drive (since it has an auto) with a lot of toys (NAV, fancy stereo). It's not mind-bogglingly fast and it's not especially nimble but it's not a slouch. Because of the aforementioned TC-SST, modding may not be easy as it likes to engage the safe mode (which means no more power can be added). People are looking into modding it but it's up to you whether you want to mod a rather expensive transmission to take more power that it wants to stock. The MS3 is nice but FWD, I don't know how important AWD is for you. Same goes for the GTI but the GTI is considerably more refined among this group. You may also want to consider Audi and BMW if you want luxury as well as speed (and if you have a decent budget).

 

The TC-SST is a new transmission for Mitsubishi.
The Engine is the same as the EVO X, different cams?
The front suspension is different from the EVO X, McPherson vs whatever the EVO uses, SLA? I dunno never looked at it.
The rear suspension is different.
Uses a gear driven front LSD and helical rear.
Has ACD from the EVO 9, no AYC though.
The Turbo is smaller than what comes in the EVO X.

Some stuff from the EVO 9 drive-train wise may be plug and play with the Ralliart, such as diffs and related parts.
Since the engine is the same as the EVO X (For the most part) anything developed piston, valve train, crank etc... will work.

The only limiting factor is the Transmission it self, if anyone can overcome the limitations on the TCU we will be fine. Or maybe Mitsubishi will reveal a 5-speed sometime. Works seems to be trying to get the EVO 9/X? transmission/transfer-case to fit.

Hopefully something comes along soon.

 

It has no place in this thread. The OP was asking for advice on what cars to look at, not a breakdown of every potential problem that the car could have. MS3s had a history of breaking motor mounts but of course, no one gave a damn that I didn't say that. GTIs are made by VW but of course, that was ignored. It's just the fact it's a Subaru that causes this reaction.

 

Then why bother?

Ralliart has same cams as Evo from what I understand, same internals.

 

Because it would stop threads like this from turning into a 10 page epic.

Anyways, from what we know, the Ralliart has the same internals. We don't know exactly what's going on but if there are changes, I would suspect they would be minor (maybe different pistons or different cams but not enough to make a vital difference for the average person). The turbo is smaller and the intake tract is different enough that you cannot simply bolt on the evo intercooler. The exhaust appears to be different as well despite some saying it was the same. This is evident by aftermarket Evo exhausts not fitting. As said, the drivetrain is different. This means the differentials (since the Evo has S-AYC, a part of the rear differential). The brakes are very different, the Evo has Brembos (ie. stops on a dime) while the Ralliart has the same brakes as the GTS.

 

Its not that, its just your only here to defend your pride in Subaru because you own the WRX. If you had reacted in a different manner stating that yes the MS3s break motor mounts and GTI is volkswagon that would be a different story, but no you keep saying that thing only thing Mitsubishi has to say is Subaru has engine failures. Than what happens when Mitsubishi doesn't have broken gas pedals?

 

OP, this is my summary of the two most hotly contested here. I have also tested the SI and the Cobalt SS. For me I do not like wagons (looks) and I wanted AWD. I think those are the main things you need to consider first on your list. If FWD is fine for you, then you have more decisions, especially if you like the hatches. The SI is refined but slow and the revs will kill you. The SS is very good, but it feels very cheap on the inside and the outside is nothing to write home about either. For the money the best buy is the SS. If you want to spend a little more for the AWD cars, here you go.

Alright, I took about 4 hours this afternoon and did 3 test drives. RA (RG by the way), 08 WRX and 09 WRX back to back to back with about 30 minutes between stops, started with the RA. There is a big difference in the 3.

The RA is fun. I still think it is noisy. The engine is noisy and the road noise is very present and worse on the highway. I just do not think it is comfortable at all. The suspension is smooth. The seats suck. I sat in the EVO seats also while I was there. No way I would ride in those for a DD unless I was 18-25. So count out the Recaro package on the RA as not worth it (for me). It shifts fast and smooth. I looked at the computer and after a 20 mile test drive 50/50 city/hwy I was at 11 MPG. OUCH. The smell was horrible. I know it is new (2 miles) and things burn off but it smelled seriously nauseating. One good thing, the dealer offers a 20 year 200k warranty with any Mitsu...Evo included!!! The engine is nice and revs well and from about 3000-5000 it pulls good. Below that and before it spools up it is big dog, in 6 on the highway....very little pull at all. I went down to 5 and it was OK but nothing special. Good car, not very refined. Interior is OK but the seats are just not good. This car revs like hell and it does give you a race car type feel with the SST. I really ran the gears today and it is a great thing for fun and convenience. To me for a DD the suspension is great and it is very tight (solid) with really crisp steering. There is body roll and it can seem like it is getting away from you if you hang a long turn fast (on ramp). The looks are great and the high revving gives more of a feel of performance than a punch but it is sporty and more than fast enough for a DD. Auto start would be good to add as an option. To me you need to pay attention at stops in auto mode as when the car makes that last downshift to first, it really can surge the car forward, or at least seemed to. I read that some say that MITSU uses thicker metal, but when I closed the door, I did not get that impression.

08 WRX. Slow. Felt like an SI. Even at boost it was so-so. Bad looks without the ground effects also. Bad wheel color. Unless you just want a bargain...I would not buy one. Extremely quiet, almost boring. Very unstable while cornering. Dives and bounces all over the place.

09 WRX. Seats are great. They just fit me better and give better overall back support. (backs are my business so this is important to me) I am 5'10 about 190, so it was not about being some large fat guy in the Recaros. Interior to my eye is nicer materials than the RA with a better atmosphere (lively maybe or less stark). Steering wheel is thicker than the RA which I like better but the RA wheel is very nice with a smaller circumference. The shifter is a little spongy and 4-5 is way out there and vague. The car is very quiet. I know I have mentioned this before and everyone quoted me dB levels but to my ears there is a HUGE difference and the one I drove had SPT exhaust (and was still more quiet) and the road noise is substantially less. Engine power is more available at all RPM and is more linear and predictable. The RA really spools then surges (lag). The WRX has less of that. The handing is better than the RA but by no means great. The RA seems to be a taller car or feels top heavy to me, the WRX not as much so. Brakes to me were about the same. The heavier RA needs a little more time but not much. I did not get on this car as much as I would have liked as we were discussing the below 4k break in. The car is very quick and just feels lighter to me. It is less surge oriented than the RA. Negatives were the summer only tires. Engine reliability. Looks are average. I do not think the sedan looks bad, it just does not look aggessive like the RA. Fuel economy is the real draw here.



If you are just looking for some easy fun the RA is a great buy. I still think it is about 3k too much but if you like the trans it is worth it. I am scared of the WRX motor issues but the dealer I was at only had one go bad. The quote I received was "we stand by our product and our customer". I asked about mods at the Subie dealer, he quoted me the same thing. I took that to mean that as long as it is not highly abused or raced they were OK with some mods. I have no idea how many they have sold but it may only be two as the hatch I drove was the same one I drove 1-2 months ago. The RA with that monster warranty needs serious consideration, but they had the GSR with 0% for 60 and the same warranty. Those seats would kill, and a change would be needed. I could get new seats for the RA also. But again, the car is already more pricey.

Not that any of my opinions matter much to anyone reading this far, but they are both good cars. It just depends which one suits you better.

 

Except that I don't own an 09 WRX, thus your point is moot. You might as well say that all Evo owners have to defend the Evo X or that because an Evo owner likes the X, it's just because they're an Evo owners. I really don't see how my first comment was off base. I suggested that the OP drive a variety of cars to make up his mind. I pointed out where the Ralliart is different from the Evo. I also pointed out that TTP has found that the safe mode of the transmission comes on when they mod it. Did I say the transmission is crap? No, did I say that the Ralliart was crap and shouldn't be considered? No, thus you cannot say I was out of line. Moreover, why should I have to say the problems associated with every car? I don't see anyone else getting in **** for suggesting other cars.
If you read the thread, you'll notice that the only thing going on for pages upon pages is people stating how Subaru has had engine problems. No one states positive aspects of the Ralliart, no one stats negative aspects of other cars, no one really says anything other than "oh my god, you said WRX, they blow motors all the time". It's pretty pathetic really. Honestly, how can you base your entire argument on another car having issues? That's like saying Oprah is hot because Carmen Electra has VD. I'm getting really tired of every ****ing thread turning into a Subaru bashfest. Rivalry is great, but when the only good thing some people can say about the Ralliart is that Subaru is having issues, it doesn't give a good impression of the car. People shouldn't need to resort to this crap to support the Ralliart anymore than people needing to bash the STI to support the Evo. the cars can stand fine on their own.

 

This is a great post.

 

To Amby:
Yes u should have pointed out the problems the other cars may face if u are goin to point out the tranny in the RA. The RA can handle light mods. I have no beef with u only ur comments. I am in no way anti-Subie either i actually was a STI fan b4 I got into the Evo's back when they used the GC Chassis. I still give them respect when it is due and i do commend them for upping the much needed power on the WRX but that engine does have an issue. U did single out the RA which was not a good thing to do here. Save that for the Subaru forums.

To OP:
I do apologize for contributing to the arguement, this has been an on goin discussion between alot of us. I've drivin all these cars and honestly the best all around IMO (performance, style, interior, price, comfort, versitility, etc) is the MS3 but it is FWD so u do have torque steer and if you are goin to live where there is snow then its not as reliable as an AWD but still great car and responds well to mods. The GTI is a good car but its lackin in the power department and feels heavy to me and also FWD so torque steer is there but its more refined than the rest and good on insurance because it's a VDUB. The WRX is very fast and inexpensive but not really easy on the eyes and some ppl are experiencing engine failures so you might want to think about that. The RA has a great AWD system but a cheap interior although it is alot better than the last gen (2002-2006). I felt a bit more comfy as a DD in this one because of the TC-SST but it will take some getting use to if u are a tru stick shift person. And the tranny can't take heavy modding so u would have to keep it basic (intake, exhaust, maybe a new downpipe and a tune.) These are just my opinions so take them for a ride and see which one works for you. Remember its ur investment not ours.