We put the hose back on and it would still not start, if you can NOT drive the car to me it's blow up or something is wrong with it. Anyway what does it matter get a evo and take it to George then tell me how good off a tuner he is.

 

evoindahouse,

I don't think you're helping here. You kind of like a person trying to pour oil/gasoline onto a burning fire.

This thread is bout Manuel (silverevo8) seeking answer from George (Boost Solutions). I think up til now, George agreed to help Manuel to fix/troubleshooting his problem. I hope that for whatever problem Manuel's car having, George will be able to help.

 

I talked with Manuel at the dyno day and told him to get a good tuner to do his car, like Tym @ Buschur, or Martin @ Ams. Or sell most of it and get a xede.

 

I might be on the right track to get this issues sorted out. I'm really not interested in a huge controversy or internet fight I'll contact George to see if he'll do something to help me here but I'll try to get this EMS working right first. Oh yeah chinalfr, I PM'd you........

 

Anyone here who thinks George is not a good tuner is wrong. I have personally seen George tune two other evo's who had previously paid another shop 400 each to tune, make more power, drive better, and have a safer a/f. It was funny to see two evo's different mods with ems come from the same shop, with the exact same map. Oh and don't forget both evo owners paid 400 bucks for a 30 minute tune.
Yes George also tunes my car and and my car runs great everyday, makes tons of power, and I have great driveability. I will in the future always recommend boost solutions to anyone who asks cause I feel he has given nothing but the best support to me and my friends.

 

I never wanted to post this, but it is the truth. First off, Manuel, please make up your mind. You complain and complain about your tuning, soot, etc. You then say golly gee this has gotten out of hand. You created this monster so remain professional and end this post in some sort of positive way. I have seen your car when it was at boost solutions. I heard it idle, I saw it run. At the TIME it was perfect! At the TIME, you probably had the fastest stock turbo EVO in GA. TIME changes though and so do personalities when you question someone's tuning capabilities without fully knowing what you are talking about. I am not attacking, but I will state some facts:

1. You were trying to be cheap when you bought the RC injectors. George warned you about those and suggested something that cost more, but would WORK. You were stubborn and insisted on using yours. The result was YOUR soot problem that YOU caused not George. You then posted it on the net WITHOUT fully knowing what you were talking about or GIVING YOUR TUNER A CHANCE TO FIGURE OUT YOUR MISTAKE before posting it!!! You said that you didn't want this to get out of hand, yet you post these controversial issues that you are personally in question of.

2. If you think that WADZI is a better tuner then go for it, but I will let you know what he did to my car: Tuned it for maybe 30 minutes and charged me 400 big ones - he used a map from another customers car and supposedly "fine tuned it" - NOT, it was detonating all over the place and running LEANNNNNNN as you know what - I actually thought that my car was well tuned - He then, just recently, copied my map onto one of my friend's car and charged him 400 buckaroos for my map that was "fine tuned." - bot of us hand no idle, lean, stall after stall, detonation - sorry, but this had to be said - nothing but the facts

3. This is the fact that you need to pay attention to so here it goes - GEORGE TUNED THE HELL OUT OF MY CAR AND MY FRIEND'S from fact #2. He only charged us 50 dominos for hours of tuning each - yes, our cars run great.

4. I've been to boost solutions the past five weekends and George has gone out of his way to get my car right. The car had a lot of problems, but that's another story. He is very dedicated to customer satisfaction. My car now runs like it was stock except 200hp more powerful.

5. A good way to end this dilema, in my opinion, would be to take your car to George, let him do what he does best,(tune) and if he can't fix your problems, some of which you have caused, then post your FACTUAL copmlaints. - He offered, again an again, so accept.

6. George can't fix it if you don't bring it to him.

I truely understand your frustration. My car too has been through many ups and downs. When you're not happy with your tune, you can't just point the finger at the tuner. You have a standalone. As the weather changes it does. I personally watched my idle go from good to not so good in the matter of minutes due to the change: temp, humidity, time of day, location. Manuel, I wish you the best.

As for everyone else that keeps posting on this subject, If you weren't there then you don't know so please let George and Manuel settle this at their level.

THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR!

FACTS ONLY!

NO MORE OPINIONS OR ASSUMPTIONS!!!

PLEASE!!!

 

how can you properly tune a car without a dyno......

 

Please, don't write what you don't know for sure. I'm sick and tired of being called "cheap" after spending well over $5K at boost Solutions. Another thing, since when are Denso Injectors cheap? And how come the expensive HKS injectors I bought from George not work any better?

You don't want opinions and assumptions, yet you say my car was perfect... How do you know? Did you take out my car for joy rides while it was at boost Solutions?.. If so, I have even more problems with Boost Solutions than a crappy running car.

It might have been great when you tested it without my permission, but it has never, ever been right any of the 3 times Boost solutions delivered it to me. If you think I'm making this stuff up, I can get many more ppl to back up my words. There are lots of EVO owners as well as other car enthusiast and friends who see me and the car every day I'm sick of this thread, but I'll post sworn afidavits to prove that I do not lie.

I never said Wadzii or anyone else is a great tuner, except Shiv who i saw with my own eyes do a fantastic job on several cars this weekend. George suggested I go to Wadzii with any issues from the AEM UEGO. I might have to do that.

I've taken my car to Boost Solutions at least 3 different times and they kept the car for several weeks each time and still I have the same issues. What would make me think that yet another time will be different? You are attacking me needlessly. Everything I've said is the truth, I've left out more than I've said. I've got proof and witnesses for everything I say. I don't want to post anymore and continue this sorry @ss thread, but I'll be damned if I allow ppl to blame me for somebody else's mistakes. I've fullfilled every part of my agreement with Boost Solutions. Ask if any of my money was counterfeit or if any of my checks bounced, no? Then ask if my credit cards were good or not. I've driven my car less days since February than George has had it in his shop. I've been extremely patient and worked with the tuner until recently.

Now I'm trying to find help where I can. I need to get my car sorted out I hope George will work with me on this to make things right, but it's going to be in some other way than getting my car again to experiment on. I'll be in touch with Boost Solutions as I have been in the past. Trust me on this, I've sent emails and other communications to George and Andy that you or nobody else knows anything about. So you are the one making assumtions and stating baseless opinions. If you don't believe me about the clouds of smoke and soot, you could try asking poor Mike Raza who rode behind me to Dyno4mance and literally got sick with the fumes

All the rest of you guys need to butt out of this and leave be. I'm not going to post any more stuff that's critical of Boost Solutions unless you or other inpugn my veracity or try to change history. I'm not backing off anything I've said because it's true and very understated..... If it was somebody else writing these posts, the tone would be much more agressive, negative, hostile and critical while still being true.

 

With a wide band O2 sensor an open road, and lots of time.

I road tuned my EVO using the AEM EMS starting with a very safe and conservative base tune from Tym at Buschur Racing. Then after I finished my road tunning I was able to get on the Dyno dynamics dynometer over at Axis racing {see thread here https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...8&page=1&pp=15 } to confirm my tuning. I made ZERO extra HP after doing some dyno tuning, but I did fatten up the fuel curve on my race gas map and pull about 2 deg of timing on my pump gas map at 2 RPM points. Zero change in HP but a little safer tune. I could have run for the next 10 years on the road tune I came up with and had zero problems.... but it was nice to confirm it on the dyno

Keith

 

I was worried you would take some of what I said personal. Manuel I never rode in your car. I saw it pull in and out of the shop and it sounded great. I saw it idle and all was well too. Like I said I feel your pain. I also know that George can well. My car runs so good man, but it took hours to get it that way. George offederd to get your car right so give him a chance. Once it is right you will feel a huge weight off your shoulders. I'm not calling you cheap Manuel, just those injectors. I apologize if you took it wrong. If you knew me you wouldn't have taken it that way. I know you are tempted to seek elsewhere for a solution, but I really think you should give George another shot. No, I don't know everything. I just want you to be as satisfied as I am. I believe you about your soot problem, but I know that it will be fixed. I too am fed up with all these people on this post that have nothing to do with this not that I do. The only reason I jumped in is because I know that at one point your car was running good and because I George's tuning capabilities. I have the same mods as you so I know he can get it right. Sorry for all the BS.

 

I can understand how some people would be enthusiastic and pumped up when they see a tricked out car going in and out of the shop.. Heck, I feel the same way too.

The thing is that nobody is going to say "hey, here is the car, but it runs pig rich" or "damn, the idle just wont settle in this thing" or "wow there is alot of black smoke coming out of this thing". What ppl are gonna hear is "this car is great!" and "this is tuned perfectly, It makes all kind of power" or "this car has lots more power than (your favorite rival's name) car".... And hype like that.

I live with the car and I get to drive it every day. It's not so easy to see the big clouds of smoke and the soot when you pick up a car at 1:00 a.m........ The **** hits the fan the next day or over the next few days....

A powerful sounding exhaust and a loud intake do not necessarily mean a top performing car. The proof as they say, is in the pudding. Huge black spots of soot on the floor after a few minutes of idling, the stalling at every stop light, the smoke and very poor gas mileage regardless of how light you drive, are things that I experience 100% of the time.

Now, I've been to the dragstrip and managed a 13 flat at 105 and my best trap was 106.5 ..... Forget for a minute that I'm not a good launcher and tell me how come Todds car was running those times and faster traps when his car was only making about 230 hp? I saw is dyno session and that's about all it made before Shiv tuned it with the XEDE and it jumped to 270 hp on pump gas and 280 hp on race gas......
Compare that with my car that only made 259.5 hp and it has tons more mods than his... Look at Ryan's car that made over 280 hp on pump gas and 294 on c16... And that's with only $2700 worth of mods......

I think that this is plenty enough evidence that what seems really good and cool and powerful in the shop at 1:00 a.m. does not look quite so good in the hard light of day and hooked up to the dyno..... No BS here, the dyno does not lie, it just shows what power each car makes.

Also, I'm more than a little sensitive about being called cheap. Ryan called me cheap before because I did not get the Vishnu stuff, now some ppl are even twisting his words to call me cheap about my upgrade path with George. That really stinks. I'll let it go because you say you did not mean it, but I would ask you to have George show you copies of my invoices.... Then you can decide for yourself, and please, explain to anybody else just how "cheap" I've been.

I'm not cheap and I'm not whinning. I lost a **** load of money in this but I'm a grown man and I'm not crying about it or sweating where my Visa payments are coming from. What I'm feeling is very angry, dissapointed, frustrated and lied to. I expected one thing and got something completely different. Who knows, maybe some good will come out of this and at least I've gotten an education, albeit expensive. I don't care about all that now, I just want to salvage my car and cut my losses. I think that I will be able to do it, but if I can't, I'll sell all those extra mods and get an XEDE. I know what those will do.

 

There is no doubt that a good tune can be done without a dyno. I don't think that is the question. The deal is that the Dyno will show very clearly just how much power the car makes and shows exactly what is happening and when without the need to drive up and down the highways at breakneck speeds. Also, the dyno allows much faster and accurate tuning without the possibility of human interpretation and "seat of the pants" power estimates. Sure some guys can do fabulous street tunes some of the time, but I doubt that they can do it 100% with all cars. Also, not just anybody can do it.... Hell, I could hook up a wide band O2 sensor and a knock sensor and start dicking around with somebody's car, but that would not be a good thing for the car..... Also, I could just say "here, it's perfectly tuned, makes XXX.X hp" with no dyno print outs to prove or disprove anything, you'd just have to take my word for it... That's not so good either.

 

Give any half decent tuner your car for three days when they are motivated to work on your car exclusively (as George is currently motivated due to this post) and you will get back a car that runs like a dream.

When I road tune, I do a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pull up to around 90 mph while data logging. Then I stop and let the car cool as I analyze the data log. All I am looking at is Engine speed, A/F ratio, boost pressure and knock sensor voltage. Start out with a known good timing advance curve and don't mess with it unless you have knock. Start out with a pig rich A/F ratio and over progressive runs gradually lean it out from one run to the next until you finally achieve the target A/F ratio.

That is how you tune the WOT portion of your fuel map.

Now on to your cruise mileage problems:

Set up your "Automap" target table for 15:1 A/F ratio for all table points under 0 psi of boost except for in the idle area of the map. In that area set it for around 14:1 if you have stock cams or 13:1 with race cams (HKS 272's in my case). Now let the car idle for half an hour with the auto tune adjusting the maps for idle. After you do that start driving and tell the laptop to start auto mapping the cruise areas of the map. Now drive down the highway at 55 mph in 3rd gear. Do this for a while so the laptop can tune the fuel at that point. Then go to 60 mph in 3rd, then 65, 70, and 75 in 3rd. Now switch to 4th gear and do 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, and 80 mph to get those points mapped out. Then do the same in 5th gear. Save that map and drive home. After you get home take that map and "interpolate" the areas that were not affected by the auto tune to match up well with the areas that WERE affected by the auto tune. Now your idle should be pretty damn good with no huge amounts of sute building up on your driveway and your should be cruising (60 mph, no boost) around 26 mpg.

This MAY help your stalling problem if it is due to the car running so rich at idle.... but I can't determine that your only stall issue is from the richness.

Either take it to George (well motivated, wants to prove himself) or learn to do it yourself with the wide band.... or pay some other tuner who is NOT motivated like George is to do it all over again and perhaps get a good result... perhaps not.

Keith

PS: The reason a tuner needs at least 3 days is because you can only do "cold start" tuning for a short period of time about twice to three times in a day... and that section of tuning is a royal pain in the A$$ to get right.

 

I bet my evo makes more power then your with the off the shelf map, with Shiv tuning it the car made 282WHP Manual's AEM car made 260. You have no idea what it makes until it gets on a dyno.

 

Thank you very much for an informative and useful letter. I'll probably end up learning more about the AEM EMS and fuel injection tuning than I ever wanted to know I also appreciate your calm words and good advise.
Frankly by now George is probably sorry I ever stepped in his shop , I certainly have had second thoughts about it...... I'm very sorry all this went down this route, but that's the way things go sometimes.
I wanted a fast EVO with no problems and Boost Solutions told me they could make that happen. Well, the car is relatively fast...... The last thing I wanted to do is become a tuner/tinkerer. Had I known this was the likely outcome, I would not have started in this path.... Oh well, I guess I'll be somewhat of a tuner by the time this is all done