It is a contest and if you want to win you have to do all that you can. Do you think the owners of WRC rally cars or owners of NASCAR go out and drive their own car? No, they hire a good driver that they think can win for them.

You still have a Tuner Vs Tuner event in this case, because a hired driver that knows what they are doing, and can push the car(EVO) to its limits. So if a particular EVO is slow, the driver cannot make it go any faster. Basically you're only as good as your slowest link. At which point it is up to the TUNER to make corrections to the car or problems.

 

OK, enough is enough. Since much of this is aimed at me you should know that I am not paid to drive the EVO (he does throw me some goodies once in a while but nothing big). I do it because I love it (driving/racing) and I really believe in the man who tunes the car (and the results seem to show it). To answer Al, I have never been to Buttonwillow or California Speedway (where the shootout will take place). I also had not been to Sears Point, Las Vegas, Pueblo, Hallet clockwise and had never done the configuration of Heartland Park that we had run on (all One-Lap this year). It’s great that you want to give me ALL the credit for what the CAR has done but the car is fast because it is easy to drive because it is well tested therefore well set-up. Every post you guys add get a little meaner (towards myself and the tuner) and a little further away from the point.

It is so easy to attack isn't it! Basically saying road racing is pointless, it's not the best car it's the best driver. Shameful. Hide behind your computer and slowly one post at a time evolve exaggerations that people hear enough that they start to think it must be true.

Fact: Road racing puts more extended load on the car than anything else, you can not argue with that (but you will try). We cause failures to happen on the road course that we can never replicate on the drag strip the road or the dyno, you can not argue with that either (but you will try). Road racing will produce the best, most well-rounded capable EVOs anywhere (that is our goal). They will still be damn fast drag cars but they will brake turn and stop with EQUAL ability.

If you come to the shootout I will put the tuner in the car as well and let him run laps. What do you say to that? Come out from behind you computer screen and come play and LEARN. We ALL learn every time we go out. That's how better EVOs become a reality. Put the egos and the pride aside and show up. The EVO is a good drag car but to focus on that only is a great disservice to the designers and the heritage of the car. You said yourself that you are a good autocrosser so you must know what I'm talking about? I am not trying to instigate anything here just trying to stop the assumptions about me and hopefully shed a little outside perspective to this thread. Thanks and sorry to vent and hope to see you (and everyone) at the shootout

 

Basically - I am NOT a WRC organization and either are my customers. I am not NASCAR either

The way they are trying to promote this event they are talking like its going to be the biggest evo event of all time

To me - if you want to make a big evo event - do an auto cross and a drag race so that ALL the evo owners can participate and have fun

Its very sad to me that so called "tuner" contest over there on the west coast revolves around the same concept over and over again - when everyone knows there is much more to an evo - and enjoying a evo than seeing how fast a proffessional driver can drive around a track

It would be nice to have a more wide variety of tests and contests and also restrict the driving to the actual owner / tuner

Anyway - I hope they all have a good time doing this !

 

Hey, I was not pointing a finger at anyone I was just making an observation.

 

The real reality for me is that I KNOW that cars that go road racing crash and get totalled and people get hurt. If you are driving at or ner the limits thingscan and will go wrong. While I enjoy driving fast around corners as much as the rest fo you and my EVO does still mainatin the full compliment of suspension and braking that you would expect in any evo - I know the safe limits and do not want to try and "prove" anything on the track taking calculated risks with my life and my car to try and prove something to any one else.

I saw what happened to derek at the OCC and if you are not prepared to see that happen to yourself then you have no business road RACING - and thats why I have no intention

I find it humerous that Vishnu seems to have come up with this marketing idea to have a great driver like yourself go to events that have no other evos and brag about how great his tuning is.

I think you will discover at this so called "shootout" - to me its really a ROAD RACE - that there will be some other fish in the pond and winning will not be that easy !

While I am looking forward to watching it all from the sidelines - I have no interest in starting a side line in road racing.

I drag race and auto cross becuase they are fun and I have seldom seen anyone get hurt

 

I agree and I am not pointing any fingers either.

I am just oberving that this road race studff is dangerous - takes TONS of money and is not really a valid test of the tuner or what the evo owner who buys the products can see on the street

I commend my customers who have accomplished some great road race victories - eg Robert Fuller and Derek from the OTC - however the Road Race sport is not something I am interetsed in

AND - I think its silly - super silly if all these tuners start hiring pro drivers

 

Well, the point of this shootout was actually to have the cars compete with drivers in a time trial format to see who could put it all together for the fastest lap.

I can understand that you don't want to attend, but that doesn't mean the event isn't "fair". I think it'll be as fair as an all-out tuner contest can be. Win or lose, we just want the tuners out there competing and showing off their cars

Mark

 

well if the tuners aren't driving the cars, how is it they are competing?

 

I may have missed some of the posts in all these threads, so maybe this point was already made. Why not also do a dyno comparison, which could possibly weed out some of the driver differences on the track (at least power wise).

Also, perhaps relegating the contestants to a setup that is at least semi-commonly used on the street with some kind of cost limit, say $5,000 retail might be better. Obviously, the cars wouldn't be as exciting as the maxed out tuner cars, but it would be more relevant to most people as their future plans are more on this level.

 

Well,

Although I pretty much disagree with Al on about every philosophical point, and the fact that I am a huge road-racing fan who has a complete aversion to both drag racing and creating cars that are gross dyno queens, there is a valid point being made here. The quality of the driver is a HUGE factor. You could ostensibly take Paul and put him in a lot of tuner's cars and get amazing results, while on the other hand, the same car with just a good solid driver, as I'm told Shiv is for example, can be much slower. Take an average driver and throw them in the mix, slower still. So a road race does not showcase the objective "completeness" of the tuning package, as it were, especially not considering the needs or the perspective of the average enthusiast. At any rate, I hope it comes off, just for an opportunity to see some amazing driving! I'm just starting to dip my toes into the track scene, and I think an even like this is only a good thing. It’s just wise to be fair and objective about what will really be accomplished, however.

Percy

 

If Shiv drives his own car he will do good infact he will do soo good. Trust me when i say that. I saw the guy driving and he is no joke.

 

Ok, I'm sorry to have started such a flame fest. But, the reason why we don't have a dyno and quartermile shoot out is logistics. KK is trying to organize this event, and the number one organization factor is cost. It's very expensive to do any shootout. So, we're starting small the first year and doing the time attack. Whether you love road events or hate them, that's your own perogative. Maybe next year we'll add more events, but this year it's going to be a road course based challenge. And keep in mind, don't take it to seriously. There are lot's of variables, some tuners (and privateers) have spent exorbitant amounts of money on their vehicles, while others have not. So, in the end, it will be fun to watch, see video clips and hear the results of who won, BUT if you don't win it's not the end of the world. More importantly it will be a large evolution meet - where evolution vendors, tuners and enthusiats can get together.

 

This is about the cars and the tuners ability to make them faster and more powerful, not the people

 

I never said it was not "fair" - I am merely voicing my resonable suggestion that in the future such a "tuner" contest should consider other factors. Limiting the results to a time attack road course - epsecilalyly such a high speed one - really means that the results mean little or nothing for the typical end user. For example - I think we all can agree that the HKS time attack evo is prob the world's fastest road course evo and their driver is one of the best. However - what that means for the typical end user who buys the loud HKS bov or the HKS boost ocntroller - I do not know

I am merely hoping that any future "tuner" contests will not be similar "road races" as I have no interest in that form of motorsports - but would love to participate

Thanks

 

but everyone knows alot of races are based on driver skill