Why are you still debating this whole driver skill element? The only possible test that wouldn't require driving skill is a dyno shootout. This might be possible, but I don't know how many people want to watch a dyno shootout.

 

I really do not have a good answer to that question

From what was posted before - the reason why they did not choose something like a dyno contest - 1/4 mile or auto cross or stopping contests is becuase they did not want to turn it into a milti day "ordeal". However - the simple fact remains that road racing is the most expensive form of motorsports both from a track cost and fuel and tires etc

Also - it seems they want to turn this into a giant Evo member meet and have all the memebers there . . . . . to WATCH the "professional" drivers having a good time

Personally - my vote is for an event that all memebers can participate in and have fun

After all - last year at the dsm shootout in Ohio some 1st time racer with a Buschur Stage 2 beat me in the finals . . . . isn't that what owning and evo is all about ?

I think something like the dsm shootout is much more interesting - open to everyone - no pro drivers needed - eveyone has fun

Also - something more multi -dimentional that just road racing to expose more of the potential of these fine cars

 

Personally - I like the format of the SCC USC testing - while any testing contest wil hav shortcommings . . . I think a test like the USC is much more interesting to me than a road race in trying to find out who is a good tuner and who designed a nice evo

 

I certainly hope that inteligent dialoge on a particular point where people respectfully disagree and debate relative merrits of competing ideas is not a "flame fest"

I do not see anyone insulting each other. . . calling names or making threats etc

What I see is healthy disagreement and discussion which is something I think we need more of

 

Al, everyone is invited to enter their car. Privateers are entering the event. GT40 will be running his car. All we ask is to enter the competitive tuner or privateer event, is that your are capable of being competitive and safe.

 

While I greatly respect guys like Robi, GT40, RRE, chronohunter - etc etc etc who are all engaged actively in the area of road course racing with their evos. . . (heaven knows you don want to get ino a passager sea with one of thse guys driving unless you have a serious mental defect) . . . it is true that road racng requires a uniue set up - eg big *** tires, detuned etc etc which is not represenative of a so called "Street Evo" which is what most of us drive every day

Also - obviously the skill level required by the driver - the tires and the braks are more important to sucess tan the engine modifications and tuning

I admire and appeciate the participants in this event and hope that Robi kicks all their tails on the track . . .

I am merely hoping that is we start to call it a so called "tuner contest" that we are open to more angles of testing than who is the fastest road racer

The sad reality is that my Evo would have destroyed all takers at the last USS with ease and due to political reasons I could not even get into the show

My hopes are alive that one day I will be fortunate enough to participate in such a contest

I am merely voicing my frustration here that this event could not have been geared more towards a multi-dementional affair

 

Well said

 

It is exactly the type of STREET EVO that most of the people on this board want. FYI the "road racing" suspension we have rides BETTER than stock.

Hmm, so if we put big brakes and tires on an otherwise stock EVO it could win! I'll say it again; road racing stresses every part of the car more than anything else you could do with it. If you can survive sessions out on the track you will have an amazing road car (that can be loaded for more than 11 seconds at a time with out fear). Everything has equal importance on the road course...there is nowhere to hide!

Even if we were there AL? We're frustrated about not getting in as well. Sounds like we both have something to prove

cough, cough

No matter how multi-dimensional is would be I (and most of the people on EVOm)get the feeling you would find some reason not to attend. Stop with the weak arguments. I can tell you that Shiv was scared to death at first watching his car do repeated pulls to 150mph, we know it had never been done before with that turbo on that octane. We learned what can be done and what can't. Can't learn this on a dyno, at the drag strip or on the road. But now we know it and the products are safer and faster because of it.

If you want to just be a drag racer, just come out and say it. Realize though it will limit how good you are tuning an EVO. Nothing risked nothing gained

 

Scared? Maybe a just little But moreso we were all very concerned about the real possibility of catastrophic engine failure in front of a slew of industry super-tuners and 10 million-odd Car&Driver readers!

But Sometimes you just have to put your money where your mouth is, let 'er rip and let the tuning/set-up speak for itself. If you did your job and dotted all the "i"s and crossed all the "t"s, everything will be fine and dandy. If not, something will break and you'll learn about how to make it better for yourself and/or your customers the next time (Better IC hose/clamps anyone? ).

I can tell you, firsthand, that a driver like Paul will push the car to the limit and keep it there until it runs out of gas. And it is at the limit where things like to break. But it's all a part of testing. Without this kind of fun, the car isn't tested. Period. Crazy stuff happens when racing. Things you'd never see on the dyno or on the autox or even after years of semi-agressive street driving. But it's nice to know that if a customer is to push their car *hard*, it is tested. A nice then when they are 1000 miles away or more

 

Frankly - the fact that here we see a individual like MP5 now free to post away in all forums - this despite the fact that his screen name MP5 was supposed to be "banned for life" from the forums is a sad state of affairs.

While I remain resitricted to my own vendor section and a couple of other forums on this site - it seems now that MP5 is employed by Vishnu - he is suddenly allowed to post throughout the forums - even on my forum where his presense is seriously not apreciated

I question the need / fairness of my contined "restrictions" on these forums while MP5 is allowed free access to all forums even my own

Its no suprize to me that Mp5 is allowed unrestricted posting rights on these forums

All I ask for is fairness and parity for myself and that my ability to comment on the other technical areas be restored

 

Actually, Al, it's me Shiv. I'm just using one of the computers in the sales offices. Sorry to confuse

Shiv

 

The main rason why I am stating my views on road racing so clearly on the forums is so the next time when Shiv starts saying stuff like "I chckened out" and other such comments - those with half a brain who have read this stuff will realize that I am not finding an excuse - - I am merely NOT interested in risking life and limb taking chanes on the track to try and prove a point to Shiv or anyone else

There are ways to test a car which do not require racing a car at 9/10ths at speeds over 100 mph

I am not juding others who choose to road race. I respect your choice. It is just my own personal decision NOT to try road racing in a 550 whp road car. My ar is not a car that many drivers can master when going in anything but a staight line and i certainly do NOT profess to have enough tallent to harness that kind of power in 4 wheel slides at 100 plus mph

My good friend who was a very talented rally driver retired after crashing into two spectators in a rally race and he was one of the most talented drivers I have ever met.

I am certainly not here to judge anyone on whether or not they choose to participate in any form of motorsports

Having watched a man die at the last NHRA event - I know that when you start racing you are taking a chance

I am sure even you will accept the conclusion that such a time atack entails signifiant risks of personal injury and damage to your vehicle ???

 

Thank you shiv !

 

The only reason I accused you of chickening out of One Lap was because you challenged me originally. Then you backed out. Hence, the playful chicken comments Let's not lower ourselves to that level again, kay?

I'd also argue that testing a car on the track is far safer to yourself (and others you share the asphalt with) than "street tuning" at 100+mph on public roads as you do on your tuning trips.

Just my 2c,
shiv

 

The risk is minimized on a road courses (but it is there), it is much safer than driving on the highway in most cities . Considering what you can learn about the whole car it is well worth it all. I am more scared of a tire letting go on a dyno with a dozen people standing around (it will happen one day) or 3rd or 4th gear pulls on the road. The road course is the safe place to test your products. There is risk in anything worth doing I say again...nothing ventured nothing gained, and you products are always going to be only "drag worthy." Many customers only want or need that so but you don't get to say you produce the "most street worthy" tuned EVOs, that goes to guys who develop the whole package. Just look at how many guys here have had there cars over 150mph (not that I condone that sort of thing) but how will a Dynoflash car do during a 20 second 4th and 5th gear pull? I suppose it's up to the customer to find out? I think you can see my point and just trying to explain why we take the risks...so customers don't have too. Just like the Honda Commercial "that's why we race"