lan_evo_mr9, would you say your 'BIG' timing map is 100% "knock free"?

I'm wanting to see what a conservative timing map would look like. THANKS!

Jim

 

This is a Timing map that is being used in a customers car in phoenix. I couldn't believe it, when I got this much timing in the car with no knock. Car ran great at 620 + whp!

Mods

1450CC
Bosch 44
Full race T3
HTA3582
30 psi
2.4L
Speed Density conversion

 

Woah!!! Is that like 15-18* timing at peak torque?

Did you test for MBT I hope? I could be wrong, but I would venture to guess that is past MBT. If so, that engine's going to let go.

 

I sure did it had 3* or so before I would see 3-4 consistent knock count at or around MBT. This thing just kept taking it. I kept doing 1-5th gear pulls to insure no knock. Either that or the knock sensor is bad? lol

I wonder being a 2.4L 4g64 block that the higher deck change the dynamic timing of the whole engine???

 

BTW this engine has lasted 6 weeks on this timing map. low 11 AFRS

The customer didn't want to drive here to get retuned (for Speed density changes) and went to another tuner. A week later the motor did let go, timing belt snapped.

I don't know if the it was the belt. Other tuner trying to show me up, or other motor factors. As you can see in one of the many logs no knock at 20* !!!

 

Do you understand what I mean by MBT?

You don't tune E85 by knock. You tune it by finding MBT.

 

Yes I understand exactly what you mean...
Its when ignition starts too early, and the fuel forces the piston back as it is approaching TDC, causing a loss in torque. There is a limit of timing when TQ is loss and no additional power is to be made. I tune for TQ not HP since TQ is what moves the mass. Also I have been using DET cans and have learned to listen better for knock and other anomalies. This thing kept making TQ???

I'm just surprised MBT and Knock are not present with this tune. Thats why I wonder if there are other physical factors playing to this map.

 

Yep, OK, just making sure. Looks like you know what you're doing.

Maybe it's just the 2.4 that I'm not familiar with, but I'm super surprised that you didn't surpass MBT with those numbers at peak torque.

You just kept gaining torque at peak boost all the way up to your present map? If so, that's just crazy.

 

What was the peak torque at the usual 2-4 degrees vs 18-20 that you have it at now? What is the C/R of the engine?

 

What cams? I have seen it only with factory cams before, but dowel pins on the 2005 stock cams are known to be off. You end up with a sea of 8's and 20+* out the top on pump (basically 7* extra) to make it right. If the 2.4 wasnt put together with the cam gears properly indexed it would be about the same thing. I have seen 2 2003s that was as well now that I think about it. The bigger bore will take a little more timing inherently and it seems that the lower the compression (if this were an 8.5:1) and altitude will also let you cram more timing at it.

 

Yeah, I actually just raised my crusie cells for that reason. I don't do a lot of highway driving, but the raising of certain cells did help with the overall feel of the car....not so sluggish feeling.

 

Yes, it is 100% knock free
Matt

 

This is very comforting knowing that I have quite a bit of headroom as far as timing goes. I have to check, but I think Adam has my tune at 6* of timing at peak tq. and 17* up top...this is on E70 btw.

 

^^^ Taking comfort is the last thing to do. That car is completely an outlier and I would totally ignore that timing map. Your 6* at peak torque is already pretty advanced.

 

Here's my E85 timing map.

Evo 9
FIC 1050
Walbro 255L/h
LICP
Tomei dump pipe & front pipe
HKS Hi Power Silent cat back

Comments/Suggestions welcome...