MIVEC tuning
Its been awhile.... I'm guessing many of you have dialed in the mivec maps a little better. I'm hoping some will be secure enough to post their mivec map.
I have both JB map (John's somewhat aged map) and the JDM RS map. I'm thinking about tossing in the RS map for action below 4500 and then fade out the cells above 6000. Anyone have more input on MIVEC for a stock 9 at 22psi / 93 octane?
I have both JB map (John's somewhat aged map) and the JDM RS map. I'm thinking about tossing in the RS map for action below 4500 and then fade out the cells above 6000. Anyone have more input on MIVEC for a stock 9 at 22psi / 93 octane?
Last edited by Jeff_Jeske; Aug 13, 2007 at 08:35 PM.
^ Strange and interesting that you run 10.2 were most everyone less has suggested 0.
I really only look at 3000-7000 in 200+ load cells. Your number are much different everywhere else but in that range they are fairly close. It seems you gradually fade yours from 5000 rpm instead of chopping them like most do.
I understand the 0 has been interpreted as negative cam timing but why would that be bad? Some of my strongest EVO8 dyno pulls with negative timing both on intake and exhaust.
I'm curious why you have blocked out the low load high rpm timing as well. Doesn't that make your car knock happy during less than WOT aggressive driving? I'm trying to understand what you've modifed for your standing launch limiter. Looks like you didn't tune for that.
I really only look at 3000-7000 in 200+ load cells. Your number are much different everywhere else but in that range they are fairly close. It seems you gradually fade yours from 5000 rpm instead of chopping them like most do.
I understand the 0 has been interpreted as negative cam timing but why would that be bad? Some of my strongest EVO8 dyno pulls with negative timing both on intake and exhaust.
I'm curious why you have blocked out the low load high rpm timing as well. Doesn't that make your car knock happy during less than WOT aggressive driving? I'm trying to understand what you've modifed for your standing launch limiter. Looks like you didn't tune for that.
Last edited by Jeff_Jeske; Aug 13, 2007 at 01:14 PM.
Its best to not think of the numbers as anything but the opening point of the intake cam in crank degrees like you would see on a cam card. I know the post is in this thread but I have already posted the engineering so I will do it again:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...5&postcount=99
If you want to be technical the 0* in the MIVEC map is equivalent to setting a cam gear on an VIII to -10*. No one is going to argue that that makes best power on an VIII I would think.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...5&postcount=99
If you want to be technical the 0* in the MIVEC map is equivalent to setting a cam gear on an VIII to -10*. No one is going to argue that that makes best power on an VIII I would think.
^ Strange and interesting that you run 10.2 were most everyone less has suggested 0.
I really only look at 3000-7000 in 200+ load cells. Your number are much different everywhere else but in that range they are fairly close. It seems you gradually fade yours from 5000 rpm instead of chopping them like most do.
I understand the 0 has been interpreted as negative cam timing but why would that be bad? Some of my strongest EVO8 dyno pulls with negative timing both on intake and exhaust.
I'm curious why you have blocked out the low load high rpm timing as well. Doesn't that make your car knock happy during less than WOT aggressive driving? I'm trying to understand what you've modifed for your standing launch limiter. Looks like you didn't tune for that.
I really only look at 3000-7000 in 200+ load cells. Your number are much different everywhere else but in that range they are fairly close. It seems you gradually fade yours from 5000 rpm instead of chopping them like most do.
I understand the 0 has been interpreted as negative cam timing but why would that be bad? Some of my strongest EVO8 dyno pulls with negative timing both on intake and exhaust.
I'm curious why you have blocked out the low load high rpm timing as well. Doesn't that make your car knock happy during less than WOT aggressive driving? I'm trying to understand what you've modifed for your standing launch limiter. Looks like you didn't tune for that.
Are you talking about the 6500+ at 200 and up? People put 0 in there to eliminate knock. I dont have any such knock up there and found that it helps make power to redline. I also made the 3500 rpm line equal to the 3000 and 4000 line and it seemed to smooth out a dip I was having in my load right after the boost spike.
As far as the blocked mivec in the lift off area, or 2 step area. That's how the map started (originally a John Bradley map I think) and I've never changed it because I dont know what to change it too. However I've never seen my car operate in those load cells except for the 2 step or during lift off. It does not operate in those cells during partial throttle operation. Also the car still makes about 10lbs of boost on the 2 step without knock so I guess it works pretty good. What specifically are you doing in that area or do you have any suggestions for me? I'm just an amateur, everything that I know I've learned on my own or in this section of EvoM.
Last edited by Mr. Evo IX; Aug 13, 2007 at 03:10 PM.
Edit: Nevermind, as I see this question is answered in the link you posted above. The IX cam is ground on a very different LC to take into account that MIVEC appears to move the cam position in one direction (advance).
Last edited by Ted B; Aug 13, 2007 at 03:29 PM.
John was kind enough to send me a mivec map. I did a test. I ran the radical mivec map that is posted in this thread and then I ran john's mivec map. I kept all the other variables constant, ie, fuel, timing, boost, etc...The radical mivec map has 0 advance beyond 6000 rpm, whereas John's map has 12 to 7.2 advance beyond 6000. The results are virtually identical to each other.
The "Your Power" is John's mivec map. Conditions were 24* C, 64 humidity and 101 baro. The car weighed 3421 lbs. The "Benchmark" is the radical mivec map. Conditions were 25* C, 56 humidity and 101 baro. The car weighed 3426 lbs.
I sent the logs to John and he can verify the numbers by running them in DLL, but he will need the Logworks definition file.
Now I am running a slightly modified version of the radical mivec map. IMO, you can run the RS JDM map or the radical mivec map. They are both good.
The "Your Power" is John's mivec map. Conditions were 24* C, 64 humidity and 101 baro. The car weighed 3421 lbs. The "Benchmark" is the radical mivec map. Conditions were 25* C, 56 humidity and 101 baro. The car weighed 3426 lbs.
I sent the logs to John and he can verify the numbers by running them in DLL, but he will need the Logworks definition file.
Now I am running a slightly modified version of the radical mivec map. IMO, you can run the RS JDM map or the radical mivec map. They are both good.
The difference is still there even though peak numbers didnt change. The whole point of how I do it is not to make more peak power per se, but to keep power as long as possible into the higher rpm ranges. It all resulted because I drag race an MR and was trying to avoid a shift to 5th for as long as possible. Now the car is cammed and has a Green so it isnt as important to me as it was.
For everyone that wonders what the difference is between my "new" map and the old map is only the spool advance area (I still only hand these out on a very restricted basis to people I "know"). For stock cams and S1's the upper RPM range of the map that is posted is still pretty much the same (very few changes there as there isnt much difference to be had unless you rev higher than 7500).
Back to back changes there might not be too much of a gain, but when you tune for one map or the other specifically Lucas and I have found there is a difference of up to 9whp and 15 ft lbs. of torque (torque a result of the newer version).
For everyone that wonders what the difference is between my "new" map and the old map is only the spool advance area (I still only hand these out on a very restricted basis to people I "know"). For stock cams and S1's the upper RPM range of the map that is posted is still pretty much the same (very few changes there as there isnt much difference to be had unless you rev higher than 7500).
Back to back changes there might not be too much of a gain, but when you tune for one map or the other specifically Lucas and I have found there is a difference of up to 9whp and 15 ft lbs. of torque (torque a result of the newer version).
The difference is still there even though peak numbers didnt change. The whole point of how I do it is not to make more peak power per se, but to keep power as long as possible into the higher rpm ranges.
Back to back changes there might not be too much of a gain, but when you tune for one map or the other specifically Lucas and I have found there is a difference of up to 9whp and 15 ft lbs. of torque (torque a result of the newer version).
Back to back changes there might not be too much of a gain, but when you tune for one map or the other specifically Lucas and I have found there is a difference of up to 9whp and 15 ft lbs. of torque (torque a result of the newer version).
The whole point is to keep timing, fuel, boost constant and vary only the mivec map. There is no other way to compare two mivec maps. You MUST keep all other variables constant and vary ONLY the mivec. Changing other parts of the map along with the mivec map undermines the ability to compare the output of mivec maps.
I was not looking @ peak power either. The two power bands overlap and intertwine with each other. One is slightly higher in a part of the band while the other is slightly higher in another part of the band. If you want to split hairs, then the radical map has slightly more top end than your map even though you have more advanced timing up top and the radical mivec map has 0 advance from 6000 rpm on.
I've done dyno testing on many, many mivec variations.
This is what I have personally found, on 91 octane california fuel:
More than 0 in 6000rpm and above shows no gains on the dyno. The curves are exactly the same. Once you go past 10 on mivec from 6000 rpm up the horsepower can decrease but it will hold that decreased horsepower.
Once you start trying even more aggressive mivec settings at 6000 rpm and above the car gets touchy and is much less repeatable pull to pull.
I have found the same findings with evo 9's with cosworth cams.
Most of this has been in conjunction with ecu-boost control, on 91 octane fuel. About 22-23psi peak to 19-20 psi at 7,000 rpm
The areas where mivec changes actually made gains where the 3000 to 5000 area at WOT and also lower loads. Advanced mivec during spool decreases spool time. Advanced mivec at peak boost gains torque. How much increase you can use depends on how sensitive the car is. Advanced mivec from peak torque past 5000 rpm helps hold torque.
This is all information from trying alot of different mivec map combinations on the dyno. All dyno tested on a good amount of evo 9's, with all different types of modifications, even 100% bone stock evo 9's.
This is what I have personally found, on 91 octane california fuel:
More than 0 in 6000rpm and above shows no gains on the dyno. The curves are exactly the same. Once you go past 10 on mivec from 6000 rpm up the horsepower can decrease but it will hold that decreased horsepower.
Once you start trying even more aggressive mivec settings at 6000 rpm and above the car gets touchy and is much less repeatable pull to pull.
I have found the same findings with evo 9's with cosworth cams.
Most of this has been in conjunction with ecu-boost control, on 91 octane fuel. About 22-23psi peak to 19-20 psi at 7,000 rpm
The areas where mivec changes actually made gains where the 3000 to 5000 area at WOT and also lower loads. Advanced mivec during spool decreases spool time. Advanced mivec at peak boost gains torque. How much increase you can use depends on how sensitive the car is. Advanced mivec from peak torque past 5000 rpm helps hold torque.
This is all information from trying alot of different mivec map combinations on the dyno. All dyno tested on a good amount of evo 9's, with all different types of modifications, even 100% bone stock evo 9's.
Last edited by razorlab; Aug 13, 2007 at 07:45 PM.