Highest HP 4g63 engine (from 2007)
I'm kind of surprised by the design of the crown on those pistons. I've seen a lot of pistons with those deep valve reliefs that go all the way to the edge of the piston with its very thin area in the top ring land melt before in boosted applications.
Thanks for the response on the head flow. I realize every project is different. I was specifically interested in what it takes to get a 4G63 to breath at 14,000 RPM.
Roughly 320 WHP if that engine was N/A... Impressive goal. In that low boost situation, do you typically find the turbo to be operating with a higher intake pressure than exhaust pressure?
Thanks for the response on the head flow. I realize every project is different. I was specifically interested in what it takes to get a 4G63 to breath at 14,000 RPM.
Roughly 320 WHP if that engine was N/A... Impressive goal. In that low boost situation, do you typically find the turbo to be operating with a higher intake pressure than exhaust pressure?
Evolved Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,074
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sorry i dont understand what u mean, formula 1 have 98 > 102mm piston diameter bore, and 37 > 45mm stroke diferent design more compression ratio, diferent compresion, how we can fit a 100mm piston to a 85mm bore? 
Some of our main supliers is the intistute that makes formula 1 parts, superbike and all the high end racing motorsports. We can get and design anything we want. From rods/ valves/ cranks/ pistons even a complete engine from billet if the customer can afford it.
Till end of the year we will have to our hands a totaly new custom billet cylinder head for the 4g63. Diferent valve angle, diferent chamber size to work with 86mm piston a complete new design.
Some of our main supliers is the intistute that makes formula 1 parts, superbike and all the high end racing motorsports. We can get and design anything we want. From rods/ valves/ cranks/ pistons even a complete engine from billet if the customer can afford it.
Till end of the year we will have to our hands a totaly new custom billet cylinder head for the 4g63. Diferent valve angle, diferent chamber size to work with 86mm piston a complete new design.
Also what is the advantage of berilium over Ally as a meterial for the pistons? Great news on the cylinder head. Cant wait to see the specs for that. Will the head be going on the current build?
Regards,
Chris.
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Greece
Hi,
chuntington101, no problem. No we will use the stock cylinder head with the titanium parts that i post in previous posts.
The new billet cylinder head will be used to the project with the billet engine that we have start already aiming +2000hp using nitromethane and 108mm custom turbo.
If anyone ask me to see some of these parts real quick i can make a post, i dont want to mess the curent project with another customers project.
R/TErnie, we dont have a price yet as we are waiting the prototype to test and make the cost.
No mivec version as will be race head, (with a good cam combination no need the mivec.).
bostonhatcher,
(wait to see turbo of the nitromethane project for 2000hp) 
03whitegsr, from previous turbo combinations we had with smaler turbo 1:1 at 57psi using smaller turbine wheel and housing.
chuntington101, no problem. No we will use the stock cylinder head with the titanium parts that i post in previous posts.
The new billet cylinder head will be used to the project with the billet engine that we have start already aiming +2000hp using nitromethane and 108mm custom turbo.
If anyone ask me to see some of these parts real quick i can make a post, i dont want to mess the curent project with another customers project.
R/TErnie, we dont have a price yet as we are waiting the prototype to test and make the cost.
No mivec version as will be race head, (with a good cam combination no need the mivec.).
bostonhatcher,
(wait to see turbo of the nitromethane project for 2000hp) 03whitegsr, from previous turbo combinations we had with smaler turbo 1:1 at 57psi using smaller turbine wheel and housing.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Tellus
Hi,
chuntington101, no problem. No we will use the stock cylinder head with the titanium parts that i post in previous posts.
The new billet cylinder head will be used to the project with the billet engine that we have start already aiming +2000hp using nitromethane and 108mm custom turbo.
If anyone ask me to see some of these parts real quick i can make a post, i dont want to mess the curent project with another customers project.
R/TErnie, we dont have a price yet as we are waiting the prototype to test and make the cost.
No mivec version as will be race head, (with a good cam combination no need the mivec.).
bostonhatcher, (wait to see turbo of the nitromethane project for 2000hp)
03whitegsr, from previous turbo combinations we had with smaler turbo 1:1 at 57psi using smaller turbine wheel and housing.
chuntington101, no problem. No we will use the stock cylinder head with the titanium parts that i post in previous posts.
The new billet cylinder head will be used to the project with the billet engine that we have start already aiming +2000hp using nitromethane and 108mm custom turbo.
If anyone ask me to see some of these parts real quick i can make a post, i dont want to mess the curent project with another customers project.
R/TErnie, we dont have a price yet as we are waiting the prototype to test and make the cost.
No mivec version as will be race head, (with a good cam combination no need the mivec.).
bostonhatcher,
(wait to see turbo of the nitromethane project for 2000hp) 03whitegsr, from previous turbo combinations we had with smaler turbo 1:1 at 57psi using smaller turbine wheel and housing.
I find it difficult to understand why you think MIVEC is not advantageous when compared a std evo 8 head.
I know you said that with proper camshafts you can make more power without sacrificing spool, but you can do that...AND then some with the MIVEC by advancing/retarding the cam timing.
I like to hear your reasoning behind this...no matter what it may be.
also... Do you have a site that sells these parts? I'm curious about pricing on some of your lightweight valvetrain. the Ti valves in particular.
I know you said that with proper camshafts you can make more power without sacrificing spool, but you can do that...AND then some with the MIVEC by advancing/retarding the cam timing.
I like to hear your reasoning behind this...no matter what it may be.
also... Do you have a site that sells these parts? I'm curious about pricing on some of your lightweight valvetrain. the Ti valves in particular.
I know on a friends subaru motor with big cams the variable valve timing had to be eliminated to remove the chance of running a valve into a piston or running the intake valves into the exhaust valves.
The allowable range the gear could be in without running a valve into something was much smaller because of how aggressive the cams were. The default position of the cam gear when cranking would have caused valve contact so they had to go.
The allowable range the gear could be in without running a valve into something was much smaller because of how aggressive the cams were. The default position of the cam gear when cranking would have caused valve contact so they had to go.
I know on a friends subaru motor with big cams the variable valve timing had to be eliminated to remove the chance of running a valve into a piston or running the intake valves into the exhaust valves.
The allowable range the gear could be in without running a valve into something was much smaller because of how aggressive the cams were. The default position of the cam gear when cranking would have caused valve contact so they had to go.
The allowable range the gear could be in without running a valve into something was much smaller because of how aggressive the cams were. The default position of the cam gear when cranking would have caused valve contact so they had to go.
He reduced the amount of travel from 26 degrees to about 12. This eliminated that same problem, and he went from 150kwatw to 180kwatw with the variable cams.
So can you modify the stock Mivec to limit the movement, to say 8 or 10degrees?
Like how Aaron modifies it for extra travel. Just move the stop for it?
Evolved Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,074
Likes: 0
From: UK
why dose this setup need Mivec? its a race setup that will be working in a relatively narrow RPM band. So it wont need adjustable timing.
If you look at the normal street engine the RPM band is very wide! so you use veriable vavle timing to help broaded the power/torque curve. On a race engine you are operating in a much smaller powerband and thus the need for a broad powerband is much reduced as long as the cams/valves/head is designed to operate at those engine speeds.
Extreame Tuner. 108mm turbo on a 2.0ltr?!?!?!?!?! thats going to be crazy! i take it you will be using something to help spool that MASSIVE turbo?
Regards,
Chris.
If you look at the normal street engine the RPM band is very wide! so you use veriable vavle timing to help broaded the power/torque curve. On a race engine you are operating in a much smaller powerband and thus the need for a broad powerband is much reduced as long as the cams/valves/head is designed to operate at those engine speeds.
Extreame Tuner. 108mm turbo on a 2.0ltr?!?!?!?!?! thats going to be crazy! i take it you will be using something to help spool that MASSIVE turbo?
Regards,
Chris.
I have seen many built motors and high hp cars. Always impressed...however some of these pics are the first in my lifetime where I actually got excited after viewing them!!!
Good luck and please keep us posted on what happens.
Good luck and please keep us posted on what happens.
spyros,
what are your thoughts about metal alloys like moldstar 90 used in nascar? Do you find titanium and berrylium to be the superior design over the alloy alternatives?
wow, this is getting crazy. thanks for clarifying that methanol will only be used and for the pics.
Rt/ernie, Titanium rods were 6k on sale last time i looked! Maybe the valves will be a little bit more practical than rods, but i'm sure they are a little silly in terms of pricing.
what are your thoughts about metal alloys like moldstar 90 used in nascar? Do you find titanium and berrylium to be the superior design over the alloy alternatives?
wow, this is getting crazy. thanks for clarifying that methanol will only be used and for the pics.
Rt/ernie, Titanium rods were 6k on sale last time i looked! Maybe the valves will be a little bit more practical than rods, but i'm sure they are a little silly in terms of pricing.
Last edited by Broham; Jun 28, 2010 at 08:43 AM.
Thread Starter
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: Athens, Greece
Hi,
Jokeri, take a deep breath, pics coming.
03whitegsr, we will setup with methanol for start, if we don’t achieve our Hp target we will use nitro methane. As I imagine probably we will not need. Last week I dyno another 2ltr engine 16v cosworth with almost same combo, we didn’t use methanol and we had with q16 1035hp crank at peak 29psi. This week we will use methanol to this setup and boost it till finish the turbo.
R/ternie, I will post the tests and why to our website (just a quick 130 intake making 100-105 making the same thing with a standard 105 but the G to an aggressive cam at the same time will add double mixture at the same period, having 105 for example, will have overlap making the idle unstable, mivec pressure control cant work reliably to this fast acceleration, its tested many times), the website is almost ready, when we will upload the new website I will notify, yes anyone can buy then directly from there. Ti its my favorite word too 
Chuntington101, yes we have 95mm and 108 waiting.
Slo4g63, thanks
Broham, yes Nascar uses Moldstar 90, there is also Moldstar 150.
90 is meaning the conductivity in Btu/ft_hr_f, so there is also 150 as worst than 90 but with more strength. Moldstar 90/150 is the alternative to beryllium copper as the beryllium is forbidden material from 1987. Are all copper alloys.
Moldstar 90 has the same thermal conductivity as aluminum but 4 times more wear resistance and stability from cavity to cavity. Beryllium is better from any other combination, as have from 55-70 thermal conductivity depending the mixture.
We use special true mixture of beryllium (forbidden) material directly from the formula 1. Its true beryllium with different material-mixture intake and exhaust. The modulus from our intake valve seats is 126 and 141 exhaust and hardness 41HRC intake and 18 HRC exhaust. It’s the best combination, and the worst regarding the guy that work the machine to fit them.
Spyros
Jokeri, take a deep breath, pics coming.
03whitegsr, we will setup with methanol for start, if we don’t achieve our Hp target we will use nitro methane. As I imagine probably we will not need. Last week I dyno another 2ltr engine 16v cosworth with almost same combo, we didn’t use methanol and we had with q16 1035hp crank at peak 29psi. This week we will use methanol to this setup and boost it till finish the turbo.
R/ternie, I will post the tests and why to our website (just a quick 130 intake making 100-105 making the same thing with a standard 105 but the G to an aggressive cam at the same time will add double mixture at the same period, having 105 for example, will have overlap making the idle unstable, mivec pressure control cant work reliably to this fast acceleration, its tested many times), the website is almost ready, when we will upload the new website I will notify, yes anyone can buy then directly from there. Ti
its my favorite word too Chuntington101, yes we have 95mm and 108 waiting.
Slo4g63, thanks
Broham, yes Nascar uses Moldstar 90, there is also Moldstar 150.
90 is meaning the conductivity in Btu/ft_hr_f, so there is also 150 as worst than 90 but with more strength. Moldstar 90/150 is the alternative to beryllium copper as the beryllium is forbidden material from 1987. Are all copper alloys.
Moldstar 90 has the same thermal conductivity as aluminum but 4 times more wear resistance and stability from cavity to cavity. Beryllium is better from any other combination, as have from 55-70 thermal conductivity depending the mixture.
We use special true mixture of beryllium (forbidden) material directly from the formula 1. Its true beryllium with different material-mixture intake and exhaust. The modulus from our intake valve seats is 126 and 141 exhaust and hardness 41HRC intake and 18 HRC exhaust. It’s the best combination, and the worst regarding the guy that work the machine to fit them.
Spyros
Last edited by Extreme Tuners; Jun 28, 2010 at 11:23 AM.
Thanks for the descriptive response. This thread is quite a bit of information to digest indeed but excellent. If the website will be up with parts for sale, this might open a whole new world for the 4g63 stateside.
why is nitromethane not being used more frequently? It requires much less air to be burned than gasoline and absorbs engine heat better while doubling power. Even though there maybe leftover fuel that can ignite at the exhaust with outside air. I guess the power may b
e too much for even a well built car's internals unless of course it's billet and titanium!! LOL!
what does it take for a 1000whp car on e85 or race gas to use nitromethane and survive??? it would be almost a 2000whp car just with a fuel change. 90/10 mix of nitro/meth
why is nitromethane not being used more frequently? It requires much less air to be burned than gasoline and absorbs engine heat better while doubling power. Even though there maybe leftover fuel that can ignite at the exhaust with outside air. I guess the power may b
e too much for even a well built car's internals unless of course it's billet and titanium!! LOL!
what does it take for a 1000whp car on e85 or race gas to use nitromethane and survive??? it would be almost a 2000whp car just with a fuel change. 90/10 mix of nitro/meth