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FP Black Ball Bearing tested - documentary results inside.

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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 12:24 PM
  #106  
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Seems like your making 30psi at 4000-4100 making 550-600whp on E85. Don't get me wrong thats good..BUT...i have seen 35hta's on 93 pump and even a 6262 make full boost at 4000-4200 and make more power so it can be done.
I would post my graph ,a std gt35r 0.82 but my set-up is not built for super fast spool but i'm making 30psi at 4400rpm and 570whp on 93 pump.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 12:58 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by evo4nr
Seems like your making 30psi at 4000-4100 making 550-600whp on E85. Don't get me wrong thats good..BUT...i have seen 35hta's on 93 pump and even a 6262 make full boost at 4000-4200 and make more power so it can be done.
I would post my graph ,a std gt35r 0.82 but my set-up is not built for super fast spool but i'm making 30psi at 4400rpm and 570whp on 93 pump.
30psi by 4k? i can get 42psi by 4200rpm and i have done 33psi on a journal bearing fp black by 3800rpm with more optimum afr curve..

the point is the torque curve is not touchable with the turbo you mentioned.. the car all out will do what the green line shows which is 660whp in 70F temps with low humidity 40% and under. (i honestly dont know if it will pass 660.. it might in the winter as it did 601 at 32psi last winter.)

= fp black ball bearing

= fp black journal in colder temps with more optimum AFR target closer to peak boost target.

right now i have the AFR richen much sooner then prior, which im fine with for now. its hard to tune the car in 90F+ heat to perfection knowing that once it cools off your work goes to waste.. so i tend to not go over board on altering the spoolup afr. i really need to build a box for my air filter because afr really swings quite a bit in my car.

another;



i keep forgetting to edit the mut table for 2byte airflow. but this is definitely colder temps as you can see the coolant temp is running at a cool 185f here.

my spoolup afr right now on the ball bearing black is still from my winter tune, so its not going to be optimum.. i mainly focused on maximizing peak tq for now.. (400 load on up), didnt touch anything at spool yet on the ball bearing turbo.. i feel theres no need to at this point in time).

Last edited by tscompusa2; Aug 6, 2011 at 01:07 PM.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:06 PM
  #108  
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Looks like your boost logs graphs are wrong then ,perhaps the above logs are in 5th!?
Your graphs seem to fluctuate so much powerwise but i feel a 35hta can come very close but with a better top end.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:09 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by evo4nr
Looks like your boost logs graphs are wrong then ,perhaps the above logs are in 5th!?
Your graphs seem to fluctuate so much powerwise but i feel a 35hta can come very close but with a better top end.
5th gear?

and no the 3582 doesnt come close.. if losing 100wtq+ downlow is close to you then sure.. but thats not close to me.

all logs i post on here are 3rd gear always unless noted otherwise. read what i post before commenting please.

btw i cant even do a 4th or 5th gear pull in my car starting that low in the RPM, the engine can not take that airflow at that low of load.. it spits it back out and compressor surges.

Last edited by tscompusa2; Aug 6, 2011 at 01:16 PM.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:20 PM
  #110  
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Could you explain then?(boost plot)
When you say losing 100wtq down low,do you mean for 200-300rpm?
Attached Thumbnails FP Black Ball Bearing tested - documentary results inside.-fp-20black-20bb-36psi.jpg  
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:22 PM
  #111  
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heres where i started to work on the pk tq area; https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9493420-post2.html
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:36 PM
  #112  
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Looks great to drive,i'm suprised you don't suffer alot of part throttle surge coming back on power in 4/5th with the quick spool. Still think you can get a 35hta to spool 200rpm slower with +50whp top end.
Will you ever dyno the car?
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 01:37 PM
  #113  
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heres that graph with the data plotted.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 02:00 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by evo4nr
Looks great to drive,i'm suprised you don't suffer alot of part throttle surge coming back on power in 4/5th with the quick spool. Still think you can get a 35hta to spool 200rpm slower with +50whp top end.
Will you ever dyno the car?
oh it surges in any gear.. but you can drive the car so it doesn't surge based on how you lift the gas pedal.. if you slowly lift the gas up you will avoid the surge and bov flutter, etc.

if you try to spool the car in 4th gear at say 2000rpm it wont even do it.. it will surge. same with 5th gear.. this is a common problem though with even the fp red also. the engine cant flow enough to take that airflow at that kind of low load.

trust me you cant get a 3582hta to come close to this.. not even close.. ill pay you $100 if you find another 4g63 2.3L with a hta3582 beating my torque curve before 4k. theres no way it will happen. the stock frame turbine housing will beat even a .63 AR cause its so small..

i will dyno it yes.. but im going to track it first and then dyno it. so i can see if im able to extract improvements on the dyno vs virtual dyno.

now the trick is to find a day that is low humidity and in the 70's .. thats where hte car makes around 630whp at this current boost level. (36-38psi).

the wastegate actuator on the turbo is set for a lower preload then my other FP one was, so instead of holding say 34-35psi now at redline from say a 38psi spike it only holds 31-32ish.. that is sacrificing a good bit of power, but at the same time it is less stress on the turbo also.. so im gonna leave everything as it is and enjoy the car the way it is.

======================

200rpm slower (laggier) sounds reasonable to me and especially the 50whp+ at redline.. the 3582 has no problem passing 700, where as the black is next to impossible to get there without major mods and work.

the 3582 would be my next turbo if i ever wanted more then the black could offer at this point.. either that or the HTA86 in tial vband form.. the HTA86 is probably the best all around turbo you can bolt onto an evo.. it has sick top end, and downlow for what it is.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 02:16 PM
  #115  
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I agree 35hta will struggle to beat your sub 4k torque but to sacrifice 200rpm spool to run more boost/power and more reliable is worth the compromise imo.
I'm hoping to get my std gt35r past 600whp and holding from 6000-8000rpm and 500ft/lb @4500rpm on straight 93 pump on a non-ideal set-up .
From what i have seen on the hta86 it's seems good with similar response to my current turbo but from the data i've seen a 35gtx will see similar results and possibly 700whp on 93 so will go for that once i've done what i can with the 35.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 02:23 PM
  #116  
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random question,what valve springs are you using?
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 02:24 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by evo4nr
Looks like your boost logs graphs are wrong then ,perhaps the above logs are in 5th!?
Your graphs seem to fluctuate so much powerwise but i feel a 35hta can come very close but with a better top end.
Your posts make me giggle like a school girl.
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Old Aug 6, 2011 | 02:55 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by evo4nr
random question,what valve springs are you using?
whatever buschur racing uses in their stage 3 head. they are dual springs.
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Old Aug 11, 2011 | 01:53 AM
  #119  
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little update. i added the timing back to the car and heres a cold pull vs warm.. also the turbos wastegate actuator needs adjusted, but first im going to find out where it starts to open at.. right now as is no matter what boost target i spike the car to it will not hold past 31psi at redline.. anyone who has pushed the fp black hard knows they dont start to get mid 600 until the 33-35psi target is held and reached on most setups.



ill update again when i test the actuator to find out what its really set to. robert@fp is helping me get this tweaked just right without over spinning the turbo in the process.

Last edited by tscompusa2; Aug 11, 2011 at 02:00 AM.
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Old Aug 11, 2011 | 04:38 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by tscompusa
little update. i added the timing back to the car and heres a cold pull vs warm.. also the turbos wastegate actuator needs adjusted, but first im going to find out where it starts to open at.. right now as is no matter what boost target i spike the car to it will not hold past 31psi at redline.. anyone who has pushed the fp black hard knows they dont start to get mid 600 until the 33-35psi target is held and reached on most setups.



ill update again when i test the actuator to find out what its really set to. robert@fp is helping me get this tweaked just right without over spinning the turbo in the process.
Why dont you switch to an external gate?
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