MAP EF-series Turbochargers results thread
Oct 3, 2014, 08:49 AM
#1531
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First of all...I want to thank everyone for continuing to add data and feedback to this thread. Looking through the information, here, is beneficial for the entire community.
I tend to agree with the input from everyone else. I would highly suggest starting to address fueling issues before changing the pump out...the pump is capable of supporting much more power and every little bit helps. I consider hard wiring of pumps...even factory pumps, to be mandatory...and even MORE so when you go to larger pumps. Something like a Walbro 400 pump will actually demand a lot of power...power which the stock wires can't handle. I typically go so far as to actually sealed bulkhead fitting the sending unit and run the larger wiring directly to the pump to ensure the most amount of voltage getting to the pump.
Beyond THAT, fluid dynamics dictate that a single restriction will cause pressure increase across the entire system. To that end, it is best to reduce the restrictions wherever the pop up. For example, we ran a DSM on a DEA 300 on E85 some years back and it made 630+WHP...only a couple of months ago, we ran almost the same fueling setup on a similar car and saw the same pump max out at just around 500WHP...upon trouble shooting, it was determined that the only difference between the two setups was the fuel feed side after the filter. The larger HP car was running one of our fuel feed line kits...the lower HP car was running the stock line...that length of line is approximately 1.5 feet in length...but was creating enough restriction to decrease the entire system's efficiency enough to cause the deficiency.
I would suggest hardwiring the stock pump, changing out to an aftermarket FPR/Install kit to dial in the base fuel pressure and see where that gets you first...just to start heading in a positive direction with the minimal investment.
Nate
I tend to agree with the input from everyone else. I would highly suggest starting to address fueling issues before changing the pump out...the pump is capable of supporting much more power and every little bit helps. I consider hard wiring of pumps...even factory pumps, to be mandatory...and even MORE so when you go to larger pumps. Something like a Walbro 400 pump will actually demand a lot of power...power which the stock wires can't handle. I typically go so far as to actually sealed bulkhead fitting the sending unit and run the larger wiring directly to the pump to ensure the most amount of voltage getting to the pump.
Beyond THAT, fluid dynamics dictate that a single restriction will cause pressure increase across the entire system. To that end, it is best to reduce the restrictions wherever the pop up. For example, we ran a DSM on a DEA 300 on E85 some years back and it made 630+WHP...only a couple of months ago, we ran almost the same fueling setup on a similar car and saw the same pump max out at just around 500WHP...upon trouble shooting, it was determined that the only difference between the two setups was the fuel feed side after the filter. The larger HP car was running one of our fuel feed line kits...the lower HP car was running the stock line...that length of line is approximately 1.5 feet in length...but was creating enough restriction to decrease the entire system's efficiency enough to cause the deficiency.
I would suggest hardwiring the stock pump, changing out to an aftermarket FPR/Install kit to dial in the base fuel pressure and see where that gets you first...just to start heading in a positive direction with the minimal investment.
Nate
Oct 3, 2014, 10:52 AM
#1533
Evolving Member
Oct 3, 2014, 11:27 AM
#1534
I think the lowest base fuel pressure we could get was 55psi but I had an AEM AFPR and it seemed to work ok.
But needless to say, lots of P0300's from weird fueling and the idle took a long time to dial in.
I would also not recommend haha.
Oct 3, 2014, 08:14 PM
#1535
Injectors aren't it either I don't think.
On my 2.2L I maxed out at 630whp or so on E85 with a wally 450 and 1300cc injectors. There are a lot of other restrictions this car has.
I had fuel feed line (6AN), AFPR, boomba fuel rail and I modified my return in my basket to reduce pressure.
Instead of getting new injectors or spending money on a new pump it might make sense to upgrade other parts of your fuel system. Just saying.
On my 2.2L I maxed out at 630whp or so on E85 with a wally 450 and 1300cc injectors. There are a lot of other restrictions this car has.
I had fuel feed line (6AN), AFPR, boomba fuel rail and I modified my return in my basket to reduce pressure.
Instead of getting new injectors or spending money on a new pump it might make sense to upgrade other parts of your fuel system. Just saying.
Oct 5, 2014, 06:46 PM
#1541
I had two EF2.5's fail with less than 250 miles on each. They failed back to back on a fresh fully built 2.0. I've been dealing with this since May, and I'm still trying to get a refund from MAP so I can get another turbo. My tuner put a stock turbo he had laying around on the car just to get it back to me, otherwise it would still just be parked like it has been for the last 5 months. It's been running strong for 300+ miles now with the used stock turbo. I'm picking the car up this weekend while he continues to deal with MAP. Then I'll have to make the 460 mile trip back out there to get the new turbo put on whenever all of this finally gets settled.
Oct 5, 2014, 07:07 PM
#1542
I had two EF2.5's fail with less than 250 miles on each. They failed back to back on a fresh fully built 2.0. I've been dealing with this since May, and I'm still trying to get a refund from MAP so I can get another turbo. My tuner put a stock turbo he had laying around on the car just to get it back to me, otherwise it would still just be parked like it has been for the last 5 months. It's been running strong for 300+ miles now with the used stock turbo. I'm picking the car up this weekend while he continues to deal with MAP. Then I'll have to make the 460 mile trip back out there to get the new turbo put on whenever all of this finally gets settled.
Also, out of curiosity, was either of yours the newer design?
Oct 5, 2014, 08:54 PM
#1543
As for if it was a new or old, I'm not sure. They were ordered/built/fell apart back in March/April, so whichever was available at the time.
Oct 6, 2014, 01:34 AM
#1544
I don't have the time, the tools, or the dyno to tune it on. The whole thing was supposed to be a one stop deal. Rebuilt the motor, new turbo, install/cornerbalance coilovers, and some other preventative maintenance items. Everything else is done. Just waiting on the turbo now.
As for if it was a new or old, I'm not sure. They were ordered/built/fell apart back in March/April, so whichever was available at the time.
As for if it was a new or old, I'm not sure. They were ordered/built/fell apart back in March/April, so whichever was available at the time.
Who built your motor just out of curiosity? For 2 turbos to fail back to back with that many miles on them sounds to me it could be one of 2 things. One would be crap left in the motor that reached the turbo after a fresh rebuild, or 2 you put the turbo on the car, didn't use the correct oil spot and beat the **** out of it for the first 200 miles on a dyno/street. To me it sounds like the second situation being the first one would more then likely cause other issues in the motor. It is funny how both of them failed around the same mileage but yet a stock turbo worked just fine to me that sounds like abuse and lack of oiling causing the turbo to kill itself. Turbos don't just fall apart. Hell even **** turbos off ebay will last longer then that.
Oct 6, 2014, 06:46 AM
#1545
Here is what it looked like for AFR's, I needed more injector for sure. My fuel pickup in tank wasn't perfect though either so that was probably contributing slightly but for sure out of injector. Call this 600+whp, it wasn't a perfectly flat road so I won't guess what it was but it's up, I'd guess 640ish but who knows.
