what catback? i'd be curious what it looks like dumping out of the midpipe.

 

I'm sure a good intake manifold will make good gains at this power level, especially if its having trouble breathing up top, but I wouldn't be surprised if the gains are less than you are expecting. If the turbo is really choking like it appears to be at higher boost pressures it may simply be a tradeoff in the design. The spool and power are both excellent for the extremely low boost pressures, so it seems like a great road race candidate to me unless I'm missing something. The HTA 3076 can generate a very similar curve, but with 6 more psi required.

 

Has the compressor map been released for this thing yet?

 

Is it me or is the logical question whether the open scroll version performs just as well?
Are we looking at the effects of new tech or twinscroll tech, which is not new?

The results look great if the costs are equivalent to an open scroll hta setup.

 

David, have you driven it on the street?
I'm curious to know your thoughts on the transient response, as this is what all the TS supporters rave about.

The numbers to me look quite impressive. It would be interesting to see an overlay of bad bish with the HTA3076 at the same boost pressure. I think this would give a very fair comparison. To me the numbers are looking good. Sounds like it is a back pressure issue, which is something that hopefully BW can address with a larger housing option once they have their production issues sorted. All in all, the EFR is in its infancy, and appears to me that it will certainly hold its own with future development. Its a shame the 8374 wasn't readily available, as that would be a nice setup to see in action on a Buschur setup.

Anyway, thanks for being so open about the results

 

Based on the numbers David posted, compared to the HTA3076, it's down about 30 ft-lbs at peak torque at 34 psi. Nearly identical HP up top with both turbos falling to 28 psi by 8000 RPM.

I overlayed the graphs in excel, it's about what I would have thought. They lay right over the top of each other on spool. The HTA is running more boost though so it makes more power across the rpm range.

If you could get the EFR 7670 sorted out to hold 40 psi like he did with the HTA3076, it would probably go over 600 HP/550 ft-lbs. The question of interest though, why does the motor seem so reluctant to run that high of boost?


On the dyno charts, they seem to look very similar at a given boost level. That always seems to be the case with TS vs. SS though. The only hint that you can see of improved response is the manner in which torque comes in. The EFR has a bit of an advantage until about 3800 RPM. The HTA takes over from there and looks much more "exponential" on torque ramp up where the EFR builds more linearly. That earlier torque and linear boost ramp should translate into a more torquey feel at low boost and during spool up.

This boost drop is pretty disappointing. A pair of Tial externals shouldn't experience boost taper at that low of boost which leads me to question the boost controller setup. If it can only hold 27 psi at 8000 RPM, fine, but it should have no trouble holding 25 psi from spool to redline if that's the case and yet boost tapers at even the 18 psi level.

 

Not to derail, but the 1st time information came about from the Sierra Sierra Evo, which had the 8374 on it, the torque and boost fell on its face. The claim was it had an experimental cam in it. Its also interesting to note that they moved to the 9180 afterwards. So, from here it looks like the turbine side is too small, aka back pressure.

 

Here you go: http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...670-turbo.html

 

So no break-in for this engine?

 

It was broke in the right way, under load/boost on the dyno.

 

Is it me or is this turbo not that impressive?

 

This is going to answer some of the questions that have been answered. Many of the questions are already answered in the initial posts I made about this.

Here is the HTA3076 tech:

HTA3076, peak boost was 34.1 psi, at 8,000 rpm it had 27.3 psi. At 3,000/5.9
psi, 3,500/13.7 psi, 4,000/29.9 psi, 4500/33.1 psi, 5000/32.4 psi.

This is RPM, then turbo, then TQ/HP

2500 rpm, HTA76, 125/62
3000 rpm, HTA76, 153/87
3500 rpm, HTA76, 233/155
4000 rpm, HTA76, 414/315
4500 rpm, HTA76, 520/440
5000 rpm, HTA76, 529/499
5500 rpm, HTA76, 522/542
8000 rpm, HTA76, 378/563

As I stated earlier I attempted to run the turbo at 35 psi of boost to get a good comparison to this, the knock counts would not allow it. I will post a graph of the best EFR vs the best comparison I have (boost levels as close as possible) of the HTA3076.

 

I answered all of this.

The car is absolutely NOT breaking up, runs like a champ. The problems the last guy had with the ignition was because of the AEM set up. The wavy part of the graph is some knock correction and that is the best I can get the car to perform, boost/timing and correction. Because the car is set up for road racing and has to be out for 20 minutes there is no way I can push the car harder and expect it to live. More timing was making less power. I already said I am not taking the car to 40, why in the world would I do that? First I stated it has a 3.5 bar map sensor in it and second it won't even run well at 35 psi, I said that too.

I think at some point the facts have to be faced, this turbo isn't the big answer that many thought was going to be the case.

As for the intake, it's a ported JDM intake. THE SAME INTAKE MANIFOLD THAT IS ON MY CAR, EXACTLY THE SAME. The same intake the 3076 had on and the same intake my car makes 700+ whp with on this same dyno with no drop off of power up top.

I have tested the magnus...............as you can see it's not on any cars we build.

 

My engine is the same way as is 90% of the engines built here. I was just pointing it out for guys who were interested in the builds we do and getting something done this quickly. I do realize the turbo sealing in the EFR is different, I read the same literature as everyone else. That's not what's keeping the bottle empty, I can say that with confidence since this is the only time I've run one of these turbos and this is the who-knows-how-many-times there is nothing coming out of the vents on cars we built.

 

Dude, please go read the thread on the HTA3076 testing and my own car, these two cars can not be set up much more identical than they are. My car runs the same JDM BR ported intake, it is NOT the ****ing intake manifold.