BR 2.3, FP Black DBB, E85.. my personal evo
I gained 60 whp from SD? White to 71 hta. Perrin intake to fp 84 SD .. I suggested it helped because there isn't all of 60 between the two turbos.
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Nov 12, 2011 at 11:15 PM.
I removed both screens on the stock factory MAF on my Buick GN and then later also when I replaced that with the 3.5 inch Camaro MAF/Translator on the same car with no ill effects.
I do remember that on the Buick the AFR's did lean out in the upper end after removing the screens, which required adding some fuel up there and that the car developed an ever so slight, almost imperceptible hesitation at throttle tip in. But there was more power. Like I said the Buick MAF's came with two Honeycomb screens.
Last edited by sparky; Nov 12, 2011 at 11:28 PM.
you arent forgetting a dump are you? thats a significant power adder also depending on what its replacing.
I have been wanting to remove the honeycomb on my Evo's MAF for quite some time. I don't believe all that Karman Effect and Laminar Flow baloney myself, inspite of what some Gurus on here may preach to the contrary.
I removed both screens on the stock factory MAF on my Buick GN and then later also when I replaced that with the 3.5 inch Camaro MAF/Translator on the same car with no ill effects.
I do remember that on the Buick the AFR's did lean out in the upper end after removing the screens, which required adding some fuel up there and that the car developed an ever so slight, almost imperceptible hesitation at throttle tip in. But there was more power. Like I said the Buick MAF's came with two Honeycomb screens.
I removed both screens on the stock factory MAF on my Buick GN and then later also when I replaced that with the 3.5 inch Camaro MAF/Translator on the same car with no ill effects.
I do remember that on the Buick the AFR's did lean out in the upper end after removing the screens, which required adding some fuel up there and that the car developed an ever so slight, almost imperceptible hesitation at throttle tip in. But there was more power. Like I said the Buick MAF's came with two Honeycomb screens.
if you went leaner uptop thats a great sign you gained significant airflow! nice man GN's are awesome cars.
This is a good question meriting further analysis. Is the taper phenomenon more likely on the larger displacement engines(2.4L, 2.3L) fitted with stock looking turbos, than it would be on a smaller displacement 2.0L mill?
Curt Brown who is running the HTA Green on a 2.3L engine reports 35 PSI spikes tapering down to 27 PSI. Of course, the Green has an even smaller turbine wheel than the Black.
Curt Brown who is running the HTA Green on a 2.3L engine reports 35 PSI spikes tapering down to 27 PSI. Of course, the Green has an even smaller turbine wheel than the Black.
the last hallman spring i had in was questionably way to aggressive.. i really had no control over boost pressure im opting out of that spring and going to adjust the WGA to play nice with the regular stiff spring in the hallman and go from there.
the blacks happy spot on my car is 34-35 uptop, downlow im guessing somewhere around 42 MAX.. ive went as high as 48 (yes im nuts) and it creates brutal torque.. 600tq+ but it will kill the turbo over time and possibly hurt the engine due to excessive heat.
im going to target 35-38psi and leave it alone.. so after im done goin over my car again im gonna try to stay conservative on the boost (if you call 35-38psi conservative.. at this point i do)
if i dont reach my goal i will swap parts until i do.
so next time out (soon), im going to connect the boost source directly to the wga and tune the car until i hold 30psi across the board on wastegate alone, and confirm all gears hold steady and dont creep past my boost target.. once thats done, i will introduce the mbc back into the mix and go from there. thats what i did in 2010 and got 650-660. which is spectacular for my basic bolt on car. ( i think)
the bb black is hard to dial in tho and will require hours of adjusting and testing.. it has a want to creep boost easier then the journal version.. its more boost happy per say.. so i need to be careful as im adjusting the flapper angle. it responds to even half turns aggressively sometimes.
ill report what the car makes on just wastegate and stuff also.. this will give someone else that has similar bolt ons to me a good idea what their setup should be doing.. i really am picky with my car ill spend a long time just doing tests and making sure plugs have proper markings on them and etc so i know im dealing with a healthy setup.. i cant wait to retest once i retune the wastegate. temps are starting to go into the upper 30's here now. i have lots of data from last year in cold weather as well..
I saw minimal o2 dump results. My gains were not achieved with the Muse in place. I may realize gains once the intercooler is non stock 
Tuning from wastegate on up is what I tried with the dump but I had my wga too tight and clicked 20 by.redline even if it held 10 from 3000-5000. I suppose I need to loosen the wga.
What's the lowest boost you can get with your black ?
Tuning from wastegate on up is what I tried with the dump but I had my wga too tight and clicked 20 by.redline even if it held 10 from 3000-5000. I suppose I need to loosen the wga.
What's the lowest boost you can get with your black ?
I saw minimal o2 dump results. My gains were not achieved with the Muse in place. I may realize gains once the intercooler is non stock
Tuning from wastegate on up is what I tried with the dump but I had my wga too tight and clicked 20 by.redline even if it held 10 from 3000-5000. I suppose I need to loosen the wga.
What's the lowest boost you can get with your black ?
Tuning from wastegate on up is what I tried with the dump but I had my wga too tight and clicked 20 by.redline even if it held 10 from 3000-5000. I suppose I need to loosen the wga.
What's the lowest boost you can get with your black ?
its tricky to get it just right, but once you do its well worth the hastle. i could just throw a 3 port on my car and do whatever i wanted, but i want the ability to up boost in a split second.. cant do that on stock ecu. the only thing close to that would be DMA live mapping and alter the wgdc on the fly. still to much hastle. i rather turn a knob
id like to run both tho.. 3 port AND mbc.. but i never seen it successfully done properly. tap them together into each line? just sounds odd like they would fight with each others signals.
the lowest boost i can get with my black? im sure i can get it very low if i really open the flapper up.. but ive never tried. i turn the 25psi wga into a 30 since i use nothing but e85 now. but im guessing i could make it as low as 22psi.
I have seen mbc run with bcs properly. T the signal line and use the mbc as wot / overboost limit. with alt maps wgdc = 0 mbc is functional. 3port bcs must be in block configured. Nasioc has a thread about 10 pages long on hybrid boost control. Check it out I think its in the ecuflash , / opensource forum there.
that red lines 41psi by 4200rpm.. even starting late that's pretty damn good for a 70lb/min turbo!
Last edited by tscompusa; Nov 13, 2011 at 07:44 PM.
I have seen mbc run with bcs properly. T the signal line and use the mbc as wot / overboost limit. with alt maps wgdc = 0 mbc is functional. 3port bcs must be in block configured. Nasioc has a thread about 10 pages long on hybrid boost control. Check it out I think its in the ecuflash , / opensource forum there.
start out by zero'ing out all wgdc, even the spool tables and test from there.. up the mbc and get your global boost pressure dialed in with the mbc then fine tune that with the 3 port.. just thinking about it makes me want to try it.
my only concern is the additional T's and vacuum lines are going to delay the signal.
Last edited by tscompusa; Nov 13, 2011 at 07:47 PM.
In the case where your turbo was purchased with the generic "porting" option offered by the turbo manufacturer/assembler , further porting may be needed to effectively control creep, reduce back pressure, and improve the pressure differential across the turbine.
Porting the transitional entrance from the turbine inlet area into the waste gate bypass port, paying special attention to the initial turn in radius will improve flow out through the wastegate passage(bypass port) even if the turbo is already fitted with a dump.
Furthermore, porting the exducer area(turbine outlet) of the turbine housing will help in optimizing exhaust flow out through the housing because the pressure differential across the turbine will be altered. This will further reduce exhaust back pressure in the turbine which will also decrease the turbo's tendency creep. Finally, if all else were to remain equal, a thoroughly ported housing will allow you to run higher levels of wastegate spring pressure(preload).
Last edited by sparky; Nov 14, 2011 at 03:54 AM.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602674
its been done since 04
Ot, im not too concerned about it, 15 is low enough for me to tune the lower cells, especially since I can brake boost to 10 with out a problem, and it will run 10 below 5000 rpm.
although Im thinkin, if I send the manifold out for porting, the hotside is goin too!
its been done since 04
Ot, im not too concerned about it, 15 is low enough for me to tune the lower cells, especially since I can brake boost to 10 with out a problem, and it will run 10 below 5000 rpm.
although Im thinkin, if I send the manifold out for porting, the hotside is goin too!
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Nov 14, 2011 at 07:22 AM.
I have seen mbc run with bcs properly. T the signal line and use the mbc as wot / overboost limit. with alt maps wgdc = 0 mbc is functional. 3port bcs must be in block configured. Nasioc has a thread about 10 pages long on hybrid boost control. Check it out I think its in the ecuflash , / opensource forum there.
Yes, a larger engine will have more taper as there is more volume to fill and the turbo cant keep up as well.
The hybrid boost control is not that great in my opinion and not needed. You dont need TWO boost control devices and its better to keep it simple with one device instead of installing two with a bunch of vac line and tee's.
The hybrid boost control is not that great in my opinion and not needed. You dont need TWO boost control devices and its better to keep it simple with one device instead of installing two with a bunch of vac line and tee's.
They have dumb ideas like running hybrid boost control lol.