No, but with a heat soaking IC that knocks when you lean it out past 10.2-10.4, you do need it. I don't know if you have problems with your eyes, but both graphs cross right around 5252, where they are supposed to... Also, you do realize smoothing doesn't really affect much other than making the lines not so choppy... The higher the number the smoother the lines. Mine were fine at 0, so I didn't touch it. LOL again at your lack of knowledge.

 

My lack of knowledge....says the guy who spent 7 pages defending his sh*t tune

I did misread that dyno graph, you got me on that. So good job. But so far that was about the only thing you were right about in this thread

 

How about that fuel does cool the combustion chamber, a better IC would help my setup, what smoothing really does (you didn't even make a comment on that, and so on.

I was defending choices were for the tune. The car knocked when we tried to lean it out and I said a better IC would help this problem. An IC was bought and without touching the tune the car made more power (especially up top). I take that as a sign that it isn't heatsoaking anymore and we can lean it out and make so more power, which will happen. It looks as if I was right all this time... Man it crazy the things you can diagnose when you have logs in front of you and make logical decisions based on the logs.

 

10.4 afr is not the answer; you are just pissing gas down the motor at that point. If timing is believed to be "conservative" then the boost must be too high for your set up......maybe a boost leak? The AFR should not dip below 11.0...hell 11.5.

check for a boost leak, adjust boost, fix fuel and finally recheck timing. If no knock then crank up the boost after running a proper fueling curve!

 

i just dont care to address the issues you say i haven't at this point. i mean at this point i think we all see that your gonna make yourself look like your right no matter whats said. you have an excuse for everything someone points out to you. im over it really

 

This thread is awesome. It's a mix of an ignorant Evo owner and copious amounts of trolling.

-Acree

 

You forgot about arrogant Evo owner...

I have said the same thing since the beginning of this thread. The IC on the car couldn't handle the job. I got a new IC and without touching the tune the car is making more power and holding more power up top. Why do you guys fail to look at the dynos from this morning?! That is positive proof the the old IC wasn't flowing well/heatsoaking. You guys cry for data to back up stuff, I supply it and you cry that its false. Seriously?

 

Wrong forum

 

Honestly I'm not sure, but most guys that run the stock manifold 30r make about 410-420whp. Swap to a T3 hotside and manifold and it will come to life (I have a few more steps before that). With a bit of tuning now that I have a much better IC on the car I bet it will sit where the typical results for similar setups to mine.

 

Dude if you're local I will touch up your tune for free, I'm in Bartlett.

 

After reading all this and looking over the info it looks like your missing this off your set up and it's causing your spool / power issues;

 

Read the whole thread. I have a couple buddies that ran this setup about 2 years ago . They made a lot more power/tq-470ish/390ish (VS numbers) on 93pump @ 29ish psi. Tune your AFRs to atleast 11afr (very safe). Your post from NASA regarding engine cooling was from an engine from 1925 which was 9 cylinders. rich is good and safe, but too rich (below 10.5 afrs = motor flooding -> loss of power -> very bad bogging -> more knock building -> kaboom.) go on the NASA forums and search "4g63 blown motor rich AFRs." However thats if you go WOT for minutes at a time on a circuit. Also the stock evo does run rich and also runs with up to 6 counts of knock from time to time. IMO I think leaner AFRs with no knock is much safer that really rich AFRs that could potentially knock from engine flooding, that's just my O2 though.

 

Nearly all the results I have seen for this setup (stock manifold 30r) the cars are making 410-420whp. The T3 guys are making the power you posted from results I have found. My post from NASA may be from an older motor, but the concept is still the same, a richer mixture will cool the cylinders down compared to a leaner mixture. This still stands true to this day, which is why when you go WOT you car runs much more rich than stoich. I was simply using it to prove my point.

If you had my logs in front of you, you would have seen that the AFRs we were running was as lean as the car would go with no knock. We went over the car (another BLT and check injectors) to make sure there was nothing wrong and everyone at the shop (including myself) came to the conclusion that the 30R was simply to much for the Mishimoto IC cause it to heat soak. The further into the rev range the more knock. I believe I mentioned that the IC was hurting us in the very first post and sure enough a month later I replaced the IC and without touching the tune made more power (1 dyno minutes before the install and 1 dyno minutes after the install on the same road in roughly the same conditions). This further proves that the Mishimoto was not flowing as well as the new IC. I also believe, that when I go to retune the car I will be able to lean it out more, since the IC won't be blowing hot air. Here are some specs on the stock IC vs Mishimoto IC vs VRSF 3.5" IC:

Stock IC - 19"x11"x2.5"
Mishimoto IC - 19.33"x 11.42"x 2.7"
VRSF - 24"x12"x3.5

As you can see the core size of the stock IC and the Mishimoto are very close to the same, but the Mishimoto will flow slightly better. It is safe to say the 25psi from a 30r through a stock IC won't yield great results, so the Mishimoto won't fair that much better being that it is similar design and only slightly larger, whereas the VRSF IC (thats on the car now) will easily handle the 30r (which is why we saw a big power increase up top). Pair this data, with the logs while tuning the car and this is why the shop and myself came to the conclusion that the IC had to go. Sure, I could have turned the boost down and run the car leaner on the Mishimoto, but the goal was 25psi+ and the Mishimoto IC just could not handle that.

I searched on the NASA forums for what you said and got no results... I also did a google search for it with no luck. 10.5 AFRs are not to rich to blow a motor (Stock Evos would be blowing up left and right at circuit tracks), but will affect the power. There are numerous times in this thread where I have said that we would be running the car more lean once a better IC was thrown into the mix and that will be the case when I find some time to retune it. I do agree that slightly leaner AFRs with no knock is better than rich, but you have to look at the setup. You can only run the car as lean as the setup allows you to run. In my case, the car wanted to knock once the AFRs came about 10.5 whether we added timing or removed timing. We ended up pulling time and leaving it rich until the IC was addressed, and sorry to sound like a broken record, but the IC has been addressed, we have seen power go up just from the install and will see power to increase as the tuning process continues.

 

How long have you been tuning? I wouldn't recommend tuning your car. You even admit that you lack restraint. So from one extreme to the other lol extremely rich paid tune vs a potentially lean self tune.

I can't wait to read "update: able to run 12.5:1 on 93 oct thanks to new intercooler.

Eventhough we come off as rough and abrasive with our comments, we do so because we care. I think the level of ignorance you show to constructive critism is off the charts, however, if you're willing to open your eyes and listen we can help.

Fact:
your paid tune was crap
You have boost leaks or may have had during tuning
You don't listen to reason
Your car is under powered based on mods
Your too defensive
You probably should go to another tuner before messing with your car.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Shoudn't you be making more? I'm got mine dyno tune on a dyno dynamics and making 413whp/338TQ. But my setup is ATP GT3071R w/ Tial 38mm WG.

HP VS TQ


HP VS AFR


HP VS PSI


Shootout mode