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Err I don't think Full-Race had anything at all to do with designing them, the S200 series have been around a long time for a start - Full-Race sell their turbos and design kits to suit them and have a good relationship, but that is different from being the authority on them.
It's really easy to see where Full-Race's info directly contradict's Borg Warner's own documentation on their turbos, compare the EFR9174 and EFR9180 data on Full-Race's site - they specifically say "The use of a 74mm turbine wheel allows for a max turbo speed of 125k RPM vs 116k for the bigger EFR9180" when the "116k limit" is completely about compressor choke flow for the 91mm compressor wheel. By suggesting you can run to 125000rpm they are basically advising you can run past the stonewall limit for that compressor because it has a smaller turbine.
There are literally two versions of the compressor map on this page which refer to that ~116krpm limit, one with rpm provided and also the "560m/s" maximum tip speed Borg Warner list for the whole range... which equates to 560m.s/(91mm / 1000 * pi)*60
= 117,529rpm.
Sorry for continuing to derail the thread (especially since I have a lot of respect for the S200SX in T4/TS), but those RPM limits weren't placed due to choke flow, they were listed because their customers noticed that EFR wheels tend to explode if you run them past those RPM limits. The 74mm can spin faster because it's smaller (duh).
but those RPM limits weren't placed due to choke flow, they were listed because their customers noticed that EFR wheels tend to explode if you run them past those RPM limits. The 74mm can spin faster because it's smaller (duh).
No... This is the point I am trying to make, I understand that is what FullRace say but it contradicts what BW have officially released - if you read the posts I made I spelled out why.
Borg Warner have provided a max compressor tip speed for all of the EFR range in m/s - that clearly has nothing to do with turbine speed. The tip speed limits match the wheel speed limits also provided by Borg Warner, the only place that the higher rpm limit for the 91mm compressor is mentioned is when FullRace claim that it's a thing.... in the real world if you spin the 9174 up to the speed FullRace say you can then you are pushing the tip speed way past what Borg Warner have suggested for that compressorwheel or any of the EFR compressors for that matter.
Not just taking what FullRace say in blind faith and just looking at the details and working it out will show what I am saying adds up... or that what FullRace says doesn't
Borg Warner have provided a max compressor tip speed for all of the EFR range in m/s - that clearly has nothing to do with turbine speed. t
LOL, they're not directly proportional or anything... They limit compressor speed on the 9180 because that's what you measure with the sensor. The 9180 has the most sensitive turbine to overspeed of the lineup. Therefore, the 9174 has a higher allowable compressor speed because it's turbine has a higher allowable speed.
Have you ever seen a compressor map that goes to 7 bar?
LOL, they're not directly proportional or anything... They limit compressor speed on the 9180 because that's what you measure with the sensor. The 9180 has the most sensitive turbine to overspeed of the lineup. Therefore, the 9174 has a higher allowable compressor speed because it's turbine has a higher allowable speed.
Have you ever seen a compressor map that goes to 7 bar?
"Cause that's what you read from the sensor"
Really?
The S200SXE has the same turbine blade profile as the EFR 7670 and the compressor is rated at 65-68lb/min. I'm betting this result is a S200SXE in a smallish T3 turbine housing. Also looks like a small intake, which never helps. Plenty of variables to consider before one assumes.
Also, more efficient compressor wheels actually reduce the work required from the turbine, so any way you slice it it's a win. Garrett has done some goofy things, don't get me wrong, but they have a few gems in the lineup.
"Smallish turbine housing" yea sure that's why it spools so slow. It's a T4 single on a divided .83 and it's running out of compressor. That's how clueless you are.
If this was a smallish T3 the spool would be much better. T4 single scroll is laggy, compressor wheel is inefficient above 28ps being it's past its flow limitations.
If it was a s257 it would easily boost to 40 psi and make 600+hp. Look at the maps. S256 goes off the map at 3.2pr and 55 lbs/min. Wow that matches the dyno sheet perfectly. Tom says it's out of compressor it's out of compressor.
Mr.Lith has more knowledge in his big toe......
Last edited by 2winscroll; Oct 17, 2017 at 05:51 AM.
"Cause that's what you read from the sensor"
Really?
Yeah, that sensor that you put in the compressor housing, that's a compressor speed sensor. That's how you monitor compressor speed on an EFR so you don't exceed max turbine speed and separate the wheel from the shaft. Everyone knows this.
Originally Posted by 2winscroll
"Smallish turbine housing" yea sure that's why it spools so slow. It's a T4 single on a divided .83 and it's running out of compressor. That's how clueless you are.
If this was a smallish T3 the spool would be much better. T4 single scroll is laggy, compressor wheel is inefficient above 28ps being it's past its flow limitations.
If it was a s257 it would easily boost to 40 psi and make 600+hp. Look at the maps. S256 goes off the map at 3.2pr and 55 lbs/min. Wow that matches the dyno sheet perfectly. Tom says it's out of compressor it's out of compressor.
Mr.Lith has more knowledge in his big toe......
Borgs spool pretty slow in open scroll housings in general, as seen from many other examples. It was an educated guess, if I'm wrong, woopdeedoo. Please point me to where it says this is open T4? I'm the one who said it was an S256, it's right there in the quote you quoted. Damn dude, lay off the sauce.
Originally Posted by 2winscroll
BTW I run a stock intake and TB no porting @ 830hp @ 36psi. Yea it's just killing his top end. You know jack....LMFAO.
I never said it was killing his top end, I really wish you had some form of reading comprehension... The intake I was talking about was the one on the turbo.
First time ever tuning a SX200, so figured it may be of benefit to share.
This turbos supposed to be inbetween a Red & Black to put its size into
perspective. Borg warner rates it at 580hp, and it seems like their ratings
are pretty spot on for the most part.
Mods on this car are:
Stock block
Borg warner SX200
GSC S3 cams
TSComptuned Double pumper
FIC 2150cc inj
3" TBE
Grimmspeed 3port
2.5" upper piping /w Tial Q BOV
Tephra v7 Speed density /w ecuboost
As seen from below the turbo is pretty responsive. I had to do a lot to keep the torque down so you see a very interesting boost curve.
I made a tad bit more power and less torque on a more conservative setup and tune with this turbo than you.
515whp 380ft-lbs on a mustang dyno
30psi .82 AR T3
Kelford 272/272
Single Hardwired 274 Walbro 450lph
Fic 1450CC
Sheepey FMIC
Stock intake manifold with S90 tb
Ets lower intercooler piping
