But still, doesn't the general point stand that both the XEDE and the EMS should come after a bazillion mods? And something like the UTEC should come when someone wants a bit of extra oomph attached to their upgraded exhaust?

 

While adding an XEDE after you've already added a turbo-back will yield great gains, adding it to a stock car aint so shabby either. Typically 20-30hp and loads more torque.

Shiv

 

and another example to continue his research - reflashed ecu 521 whp

 

But the problem with that tune, AL, is that ALL the fuel and ignition values at 25psi are the same as they are at 30psi. One of those cases why a full-throttle dyno run doesn't tell the whole story, right?

Shiv

 

Actually - the owner and member superz here reports that the car runs very well and is fantasticaly driveable and runs perfectly through a wide range of operating conditions and in fact yesreday he tracked the car at Lime Rock race track with no issues what so ever. he reports that he was driving by Porsche twin turbos like they were standing still!

His power resulted in his clutch which was slipping in that dyno sheet gave out and he now needs a new clucth.

 

Of course those seeking the maximum in performance - while trading off a little bit of driveability and stock like function would of course look to a fully stand alone system like the AEM I run on my car which is equiped with the 5 bar map sensor to handle 39 psi of boost and 667 whp as shown in this dyno sheet

 

That's great Al but it really doesnt help that the fact that what you did is akin to tuning an AEM'd car running 40psi of absolute boost armed with only a 2bar MAP sensor.

 

When the customer is doing 95% of his operation on pump gas at 21 psi of boost

and his occasional high boost use is at a constant boost level and on race gas , . . .

we have had no problems running our reflash with the higher boost setings

 

Whatever it may be, the tune that was done with Dynoflash has and is working pefectly. I have no issues with driveability, no issues with bucking, stalling, knock, or misfires. I was honestly second guessing the capabilty of a "flash" but im living proof that it works. By the way, im no kid off the street, im a certified tech and im very well known in the NYC area for performing tons of work on Evos. I do understand that an AEM would be a better choice for all out power but nothing will ever match the stock ECU for driveability. I got 27mpg on my way up to Limerock yesterday. By the way I was pulling hard on a Porsche twin-turbo with only 23psi. My day was however cut short by a pescy collant hose leak and a dying clutch. Big props to Al for a very well done tune!

Gil-superz

 

So what happens when low boost (23psi) creeps into or above the race gas portion of the map (@24psi) while still runing pump gas? Is the big step change (more advance and less fuel) and complete absence of tuning resolution above 24psi any cause for potential concern? I guess not...

There is theory and application. In the end, theory needs to comply with application and visa versa.

Shiv

 

HAHAHA.... This is so true.

 

True to a point..... I did tons of research and spent a good bit of money already before going with the AEM EMS and Busted Solutions. Unfortunately all the research I did could not prepare me for the lying sack of **** owner of Busted Solutions. Bad advise and plain lies can result in tuning nightmares. There is simply not enough time to conduct fail-safe research on these things. For instance, Busted Solutions "appeared" to be a good outfit and lots of people were swearing by George and his shop. It's only now after the debacle that everyone is swearing at him
It's not good to blame the consumer for for the fraudulent actions and self serving advise of crooked and incompetent tuners and dealers. It's very hard to see through a well prepared and carefully planned scam. Bad advise yes, little research no.

 

Actually, the B.S. case is an exception, and wasn't intended to be the focal point of my rather stark observation. But while you are speaking of B.S., yes, when one sees that the parts suggested for his initual upgrade consists of a Perrin fuel rail and an EMS, that should raise a red flag.

 

I read back over these posts (although they seem to be getting off-topic with dyno sheets) and realize that I don't want to insinuate that the EMS is a cure-all. I may have even came off too pro-EMS, which I'm not. Heck, I spent 2 hours today datalogging and messing withethe EMS (Ironing out my cold-start and gas mileage). Not the best use of my time. Honestly, unless you want to get that last 10% out of your setup don't buy the EMS.

Frankly, as much as I argue with Shiv, the ability to go to a dyno-day and get your 2-3 Maps for race-gas, pump-gas, road/racing is really the best approach for the most of us.

 

Actually, his initial suggestion included AEM EMS with 3.5 bar sensor, HKS RS intake, HKS 272 cams, HKS cam gears, Walbro pump, 700cc or more injectors, 3" turbo-back exhaust with TP and Greddy RSPL FMIC. The fuel rail was something I picked up as a package deal with some other parts.

The suggestions per se are not bad. The problem is that he had no clue about how to make all that stuff work together. Plus his people were a bunch of hackers and half-assed mechanics who screwed up the initial installation. George himself finished of my poor car with his laughably incompetent "tuning".

Lets not try to gloss over the weaknesess of other tuners either. Without naming names I can tell you from what I heard and read that there are (or were) other people out there pushing and "tuning" AEM EMS's and doing a less than stellar job out of it. Hell fire, some people were turning to George to "improve" or "correct" the tuning of other shops. I'm not going to get into that bucket of worms, and I don't know the details, but I definitely remember those discussions. If one does a search right here in these forums, one will find enough food for thought...... In other words, although maybe not a common situation, the BS situation was not unique.

More than one or two people (some of them tuners) have uttered those infamous words: "it will run better than stock". Worse yet, after handing the poor customer a barely running, hard to start, stalling car will assert with great authority "it's running better than stock". And to add insult to injury, when the customer complains they'll say "it was running perfectly, better than stock when he picked it up. He must have messed it up himself"