ssautochrome intercooler
Originally Posted by humpevo311
You cant the cost in materials alone for a good bar-plate setup and tanks etc. plus fabrication time would be over 400.00!!!! Damn.. I just dont understand this.. it's not a matter of someone offering a quality product at a good price.. In order for good shops to stay around they must make profit to pay for buildings.. people to fabricate so on.. If everyone bought stuff like this worthless crap from ss autochrome there would be no good shops left.. and we'd be better off leaving our cars stock.. I'll be supporting AMS by purchasing an intercooler later this year when I can get back on my feet financially.. I however like quality products on my car.. to those that dont.. well rest assured SS autochrome somehow finds new suckers everyday to keep themselves in business.
I'd have to agree that as a whole they are probably "snakes", based on personal design dealings in which I will not go into detail. However, I find the constant posting and ranting about these 5 to 10 year old mild steel Honda manifolds tiresome, bordering bothersome wastes of bandwidth at the least. Yes it is a crap way to do business... yes there are ethical issues abound. However, there are few that have run their SS turbo manifold for as many miles as I have (while really trying to get it to crack), and NO ONE has posted up pics of a failed SS Evo manifold. No, I'm not defending the company in any manner, nor do I care to. I am though, very tired of people with no personal experience with the actual Evo parts in this, and every other thread appointing themselves as all knowing GODS of Quality Assurance. Those with the bad parts on there Evo, please speak to your personal experience! Does anyone truly know what this god damn thread is supposed to even be about anymore?
I'll not return to this ridiculous thread to view any retort... anyone wanting to further discuss this topic with me, feel free to use the PM function as it was originally intended. You know, like it should have been done in the first place.
I'll not return to this ridiculous thread to view any retort... anyone wanting to further discuss this topic with me, feel free to use the PM function as it was originally intended. You know, like it should have been done in the first place.
Originally Posted by Zeus
I'd have to agree that as a whole they are probably "snakes", based on personal design dealings in which I will not go into detail. However, I find the constant posting and ranting about these 5 to 10 year old mild steel Honda manifolds tiresome, bordering bothersome wastes of bandwidth at the least. Yes it is a crap way to do business... yes there are ethical issues abound. However, there are few that have run their SS turbo manifold for as many miles as I have (while really trying to get it to crack), and NO ONE has posted up pics of a failed SS Evo manifold. No, I'm not defending the company in any manner, nor do I care to. I am though, very tired of people with no personal experience with the actual Evo parts in this, and every other thread appointing themselves as all knowing GODS of Quality Assurance. Those with the bad parts on there Evo, please speak to your personal experience! Does anyone truly know what this god damn thread is supposed to even be about anymore?
I'll not return to this ridiculous thread to view any retort... anyone wanting to further discuss this topic with me, feel free to use the PM function as it was originally intended. You know, like it should have been done in the first place.
I'll not return to this ridiculous thread to view any retort... anyone wanting to further discuss this topic with me, feel free to use the PM function as it was originally intended. You know, like it should have been done in the first place.
The original post was to find the most efficient way to test the pressure drop across the core. Nothing but respect for AMS and other American based companies. I have their products on my car, and know many that work, well actually used to work for them, but that is besides the point. They are relatively new in the parts manufacturing business, but DSM'ers for life, for sure. Can anybody just provide some insight on the pressure drop issue, hence, the only issue in question.
Everyday we use something that was made in China, and that fact doesn't bother most of us. It wasn't that long ago that Japan was taking American jobs. Now China is starting to do the same, and that fact can not be ignored. I prefer a better quality product, but many products I own and regard as better quality are made in China. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago, but now they really make some decent products. The American companies producing better products should have patents. Plain and simple. They would be able to prevent copies from being sold legally. Now if people don't patent their products, they shouldn't complain about copies showing up. Now, with that having been said, if these two products were tested, independently by a third party, then we could see if the AMS product is worth twice as much. AMS should have nothing to worry about if their product is so much better. Personally I usually prefer higher quality products made in the USA, but I must admit to having a weak moment when I bought my Mitsubishi.
Originally Posted by AutoMotoSports
wow some of you guys really just have no idea on buisness ethics and practices. Do you really think we make that intercooler for $300 and sell it for$700 LOL WAKE UP! we cant even make our IC for what they are selling. And let the record show to the gentelman that claimed we copied ours from someone else...you are far from the truth. that core was done to our specs and each and every endtank was designed and welded in house.
keep buying knock offs and when the chinese have copied all the good products there will not be companies like AMS around to develop. Then what will they copy???? soon you will have cloned pieces of garbage to choose from. Not to mention the slave labor over in china you are helping to contribute to.
you make it sound like we are all driving Ferrari's and living the phat life. most of us live paycheck to paycheck and the owners take every dime and invest it back into the company. you might see it as just some car part but we all put in long hours of R&D to make these prodcuts and to make sure the AMS name is represented correctly.
in the end its your money and you are obviously free to spend it like you wish but there are concequences for every action. To me it just seems obvious to support the shops that are advancing this industry not the ones that are out to suck it dry and leave it on the side of the road.
Excuse the soap box rant but this is our livelyhood at stake here.
Eric
keep buying knock offs and when the chinese have copied all the good products there will not be companies like AMS around to develop. Then what will they copy???? soon you will have cloned pieces of garbage to choose from. Not to mention the slave labor over in china you are helping to contribute to.
you make it sound like we are all driving Ferrari's and living the phat life. most of us live paycheck to paycheck and the owners take every dime and invest it back into the company. you might see it as just some car part but we all put in long hours of R&D to make these prodcuts and to make sure the AMS name is represented correctly.
in the end its your money and you are obviously free to spend it like you wish but there are concequences for every action. To me it just seems obvious to support the shops that are advancing this industry not the ones that are out to suck it dry and leave it on the side of the road.
Excuse the soap box rant but this is our livelyhood at stake here.
Eric
and waht does this have to do with chinese people? so companies like ssautochrome outsource their work.... so do all the multinational corperations in the world. and who do you think it hurts most? you think it hurts you? or the little kids and women that have no other means to make a living but to work in these factories that companies in FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES setup to take over their small economies? seriously... gotta look deeper into these things. there's so much more politics, economics and sociology that goes into these things. cna't just "blame the chinese." basically waht i'm tryinna say is you can't scapegoat the blame on chinese because they're the ones "making it" you gotta look at the bigger picture which is why they are making it... and big business would love for you to put all your hate towards a foreign place cuz that keeps them blame free and in the safe. i know you as an entreprenuer of your OWN business, the mom and pop shop, KNOWS that big business is the enemy.
Originally Posted by EVOla_VIRUS
With every "part" their is a development cost associated with the product. The price of AMS intercooler I believe absorbs the cost through many man-hours being put into the development and testing of the product, not to mention materials and quality control. SS looks to have done a fine job in "reverse engineering" the product thus cutting down on costs. Other factors that cut down on costs are labor and manufacturing...not to mention profit 
If it is true that SS "copied" the design of an existing product and sent its manufactering contract to another country, then this is another example of a growning scenario in America. I am currently unbiased right now; though our ecomony is shifting due to this, It has both pros and cons leading to a lower price of consumer goods and loosing business from homeland America.
If it is true that SS "copied" the design of an existing product and sent its manufactering contract to another country, then this is another example of a growning scenario in America. I am currently unbiased right now; though our ecomony is shifting due to this, It has both pros and cons leading to a lower price of consumer goods and loosing business from homeland America.
Originally Posted by jj_008
Wow. I can't believe some of the responses in this thread. I think some of you need to talk to some people in a USA industry that is being effected by Chinese knock offs. I have to deal w/ this stuff all the time. People lose there jobs to this all the time. As americans, we can not compete w/ the chinese labor market. Chinese workers are lucky to get $5-10 a day in some of those factories. They use inferior materials and have a very low quality control. Patents are meaningless in China. They will copy anything that is labor intensive in order to make money. When it comes to fabrication, we will never be able to compete w/ China (price wise), unless new tariffs are put down.
The interesting part about this thread is that the AMS intercooler is priced very well against the other JDM intercoolers. Yet, people still think it is overpriced.
The interesting part about this thread is that the AMS intercooler is priced very well against the other JDM intercoolers. Yet, people still think it is overpriced.
Originally Posted by lil'evil_evo
let's start a boycott SS autochrome thread 
Originally Posted by AMS
To properly test the pressure drop you will need an accurate, and repeatable pressure differential gauge that has the resolution to measure small pressure drops, which BTW I have. It is by no means cheap.
To do scientific (accurate) testing, you need to have a controlled environment, correct test equipment, and correct test procedures. If you really want to know how to do this then I can outline you a complete test procedure, but I doubt anyone will want to replicate it.
Competition? What if your boss told you you where fired because he now has a bunch of guys that will do the same job you do for 1/3 of the salary? That means you will now have to work and survive on 1/3 of what you made before.
It comes down to Ethics and morals, which to me defines us as human beings. In a free for all world where money and power is the only driving force and you'd crush your fellow human's dreams, hard work, and aspirations just to get ahead, is a sad state of affairs.
Of course there are many IC kits out there, but to blatantly copy the intercooler and our own pictures/description is just wrong. They are selling the complete thing for way under what it costs us to make it. I'm so frustrated with this.
-Martin
To do scientific (accurate) testing, you need to have a controlled environment, correct test equipment, and correct test procedures. If you really want to know how to do this then I can outline you a complete test procedure, but I doubt anyone will want to replicate it.
Competition? What if your boss told you you where fired because he now has a bunch of guys that will do the same job you do for 1/3 of the salary? That means you will now have to work and survive on 1/3 of what you made before.
It comes down to Ethics and morals, which to me defines us as human beings. In a free for all world where money and power is the only driving force and you'd crush your fellow human's dreams, hard work, and aspirations just to get ahead, is a sad state of affairs.
Of course there are many IC kits out there, but to blatantly copy the intercooler and our own pictures/description is just wrong. They are selling the complete thing for way under what it costs us to make it. I'm so frustrated with this.
-Martin
Originally Posted by nebolic
okay i'm not going to argue the quality of the product. But for those people that are sh!tting on the chinese that they have slave labor blah blah blah, you guys need to fu(k off. I'm chinese and I'm taking a big offense to that. First of all, for all you so righteous people who thinks that products made in China are through slave labor, please look at every product that you own, clothes, electronics etc . . . its made in China or Taiwan. So if it's made in China what the fu(k is the problem. If you have such a problem with Chinese made product then throw out everything that you own.
And yes, Patents are binding in the United States to protect Intellectual property. Why do you think Drug Companies apply for patents, you cannot have more R&D cost then a drug company . . . they're protecting their interest via patents.
It's not that hard, if these SSauto people are registered to do business in the U.S and they're selling knock offs, its not that hard for an attorney to do something about it.
And yes we live in a capitalistic country, the United States rewards individuals via monetary compensation if they put effort into it. If you have a good product, people will buy it. But at the same time, its a free market, if there is a comparable 'good' for cheaper, please expect consumers to at least take a peek at that direction.
So basically what you guys are saying is that low prices are bad??? Why don't you take a look at the market for microwaves and TV's, hmm reverse engineering by the Asian's, wooo so all that fancy big screens you're watching, throw that **** away then since you're so concerned about knock offs.
my 2 cents.
And if the mods decides to delete my post, please delete or edit all post that puts down the chinese.
thanks
nebo
And yes, Patents are binding in the United States to protect Intellectual property. Why do you think Drug Companies apply for patents, you cannot have more R&D cost then a drug company . . . they're protecting their interest via patents.
It's not that hard, if these SSauto people are registered to do business in the U.S and they're selling knock offs, its not that hard for an attorney to do something about it.
And yes we live in a capitalistic country, the United States rewards individuals via monetary compensation if they put effort into it. If you have a good product, people will buy it. But at the same time, its a free market, if there is a comparable 'good' for cheaper, please expect consumers to at least take a peek at that direction.
So basically what you guys are saying is that low prices are bad??? Why don't you take a look at the market for microwaves and TV's, hmm reverse engineering by the Asian's, wooo so all that fancy big screens you're watching, throw that **** away then since you're so concerned about knock offs.
my 2 cents.
And if the mods decides to delete my post, please delete or edit all post that puts down the chinese.
thanks
nebo
Originally Posted by scherejs
you might not say it but i will. $.12 hour and no benefits is slave labor. i study global economics and international trade and have seen the adverse effects it has not only on asia but other countries as well. like i said in my previous post "it's a race to the bottom." right now the winner in that race is china, but when another country comes along to produces those same products at a lower cost then they jump ahead. in turn china would have to strip its laborers of more wages to compete with them. it's horrible for the well-being of those countries, like china, as well as the countries that import those goods.
free trade can be good as long as it's not abused. and right now it's being abused, especially since president clinton signed the bill back in the early 90's.
free trade can be good as long as it's not abused. and right now it's being abused, especially since president clinton signed the bill back in the early 90's.
Originally Posted by nebolic
You almost got it right buddy but the accredited business school you refer to didn't give you the whole story. In the long run, resources are shifted from unprofitable business to more profitable business, i.e skilled labor. In the country where labor is cheap, the demand will eventually outstrip the supply of labor thus causing the labor rate to increase, standard of living will increase and everything will adjust accordingly.
Free trade is always good, regardless of its imported from overseas.
Please take a look at U.S history during the industrial revolution, Labor rates in the U.S was dirt cheap . . . what are labor rates now? Every emerging market goes through a phase where they have to start off with low skilled low cost labor. Competition and free trade will always result in a postive norm.
nebo
Free trade is always good, regardless of its imported from overseas.
Please take a look at U.S history during the industrial revolution, Labor rates in the U.S was dirt cheap . . . what are labor rates now? Every emerging market goes through a phase where they have to start off with low skilled low cost labor. Competition and free trade will always result in a postive norm.
nebo
Originally Posted by nebolic
I respect your opinion in that matter. Recent case study of the Singapore Economy showed that they went through the same phase and now are in the post industrial revolution phase...
anyhow... so how did you like China when you were there?
nebo
anyhow... so how did you like China when you were there?
nebo
Last edited by trinydex; May 11, 2005 at 08:14 AM.
[QUOTE=Darwinian] Now if people don't patent their products, they shouldn't complain about copies showing up. QUOTE]
It has to be difficult to patent a spearco core with in-house welded end tanks. The markup has to be fairly significant considering bulk bought cores with some kid in the back doing the welding.
It has to be difficult to patent a spearco core with in-house welded end tanks. The markup has to be fairly significant considering bulk bought cores with some kid in the back doing the welding.
I'm sorry to say if there is a similar product but for half the price im going with savings over the brand name. Many here have tested these knockoffs and they aren't bad. In fact some will say they are on par with brand name products. Yeah I'm a cheap bastard with an 35k evo. But I'm sure if the results come in that this core is just as good as a real spearco, 90% of you are going to get one...
But I agree that completely stealing a design is pure robbery... I hope you bust they're asses cause they a no good thieves.
But I agree that completely stealing a design is pure robbery... I hope you bust they're asses cause they a no good thieves.
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Richmond VA
Originally Posted by Deca Auto
I'm sorry to say if there is a similar product but for half the price im going with savings over the brand name. Many here have tested these knockoffs and they aren't bad. In fact some will say they are on par with brand name products. Yeah I'm a cheap bastard with an 35k evo. But I'm sure if the results come in that this core is just as good as a real spearco, 90% of you are going to get one...
But I agree that completely stealing a design is pure robbery... I hope you bust they're asses cause they a no good thieves.
But I agree that completely stealing a design is pure robbery... I hope you bust they're asses cause they a no good thieves.
Originally Posted by Evo007
I agree. I'm a cheap bastard with a $35k car and would not hesitate a second to buy a cheaper part if it is quality. So far I've heard nothing but good things about their manifold. some people have been running them for 1+ year under harsh conditions and had no problems.
its just like buying over the counter drugs... those with brand news obviously is more expensive and those without isnt... but they both use the same ingredient and have the same effect...i don't see why not get the cheaper kind