I concur and I would expect that it would be a nice improvement on the top end. However the evidence from TT, Doug at Top Speed and myself seem to refute the ability of this turbo to make 20 -30 whp which would be nice indeed.

 

No isht. Sad. Anyway, Works is doing it correctly as we speak and we'll hear from Vish tomorrow... I'm not really shocked how this started. I think as bi-partisan EFI programing vendors and the vendors that have a vested intrest in the turbo being sucsessfull start to tune some cars we'll see results more in line with expectations.

 

as bi-partisan EFI programing vendors and the vendors that have a vested intrest in the turbo being sucsessfull start to tune some cars we'll see results more in line with expectations

What do you mean by that ?

Are you saying that Mark from TT, Doug from Top Speed and myself are somehow biased against this turbo to the degree that we would manipulate the results ?

 

So what are you saying? Is Tym Switzer a liar? Are you saying that he manipulated his dyno sheet and lied to the EVOm world?

 

I am not calling anyone a liar.

I am saying however that 441 can not be utilized as a fair or resaonable marketing expectation for customers who intend to use this turbo on cars driven on the road.

Is it possible to reach that number using special race fuel, insane boost levels and a super agressive tune - WHO KNOWS. Who cares? What is more relevant is what the turbo does with boost, fuel and tuning that is more in line with what will be used as the turbo is driven in the real world.

My point is that MANY of my customers have been quite excited about this turbo after reading about 441 whp dyno results. People have been going nuts. However - it seems to me that the 441 figure is not something that has any relevance to reality.

People who buy this turbo who are expecting to make 441 without cams on race gas are in for a significant dissapointment.

As I prevsiously said - the best way to quell my concern on this subject would be to run the car at Norwalk race track and show a time slip to go along with the dyno claims.

 

oh god....everyone needs to stop with the finger pointing......it's pointless and immature.

no tuner is going to be biased towards a turbo unless it is a pruven performer....if they were biased towards a turbo that doesn't work....when they sold them to customers.....sh_t would come flying back in their face....tuners sell turbo's based on experience and know how. No tuner is going to sell a turbo knowing it doesn't work...and no tuner going to decide not to sell a turbo if it is proven to work....

to say a tuner is biased in tuning a brand new turbo is soooooo stupid. Every tuner is just as excited about this turbo as we (the consumer) are.

 

I most certainly did not say that. ^You said that. I think FP and Switzer are busy trying to meet demand and they have not had a chance to tune any customer cars yet. Now that thier a$$es are on the line, I think they will prolly give thier best try. I expect to hear from the Vish dyno day and form Works , whom initialy reported "they like it" after 11hrs of a/f road tuning. I at least insist on waiting to hear some of these results before proclaiming this turbo is or isn't what I expected. No disrespect.

 

whom initialy reported "they like it" after 11hrs of a/f road tuning

11 hours tuning the same car ?

 

It was documented in the testing that the boost was 27PSI falling to 25PSI using race gas. I certainly wouldn't call this insane boost levels for race gas the caliper of C16 or a few other equivalents.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...1&page=2&pp=15

Imagine! on the same car. Then they moved on to ignition timing

We have not heard from them pubilically since that post.

 

I wonder if that was AEM sesnor measured or boost gauge measure as they do vary.

We were running the same turbo with similar mods at 23 psi - no way it would make 441 on that car with 27 psi - impossible

 

I have been sifting through all of the talk and all I can say is "wow". There is sooo much crap being flung around in regards to this thing. I for one really hope that it works out as mine is currently sitting on my living room floor.....but only time will tell. A couple of things do come to mind when looking at the dyno sheets that have been posted so far though.

1. Some cars seem to see a pretty good increase, and some do not.

a. Have those which are not seeing a change been checked for boost leaks or other ills?
b. Were the cars that saw the huge gains actually maxed out in regards to tuning in the first place?
c. Were some of the compressor wheels or compressor housing incorrectly machined?

The White Rabbit is going to (potentially) be pushing more air around, any boost leak would be exasterbated. There have been several threads recently that have covered many suprising boost leaks, several in places that the testers would have never suspected. If more air is being pushed then the leaks will have a larger affect.

I do not know of any way for anyone sitting on the outside looking in to know if the cars were tuned to their full potential to begin with or not. If they had been previously tuned then you would think so, but that is an assumption.

Are there perhaps some flaws in the construction of the compressor side? I guess you would have to take two WR's, one that performed and one that did not and mic them. If the clearences between the housing and the compressor are not just right, then there would be huge efficincy problems do to tip vortices and the resulting spills over the edges of the compressor blades. You can bet that if several healthy cars start to show a definitive lack of power output along with the inability to hold boost that FP would want to know why this is. I do not think that they concocted some story after two years of developement so that they could loose their hard earned reputation. Something like a flop as large as this would hurt business. Is the Evo their only business? No. But the people who have Evo's now would very likely have other turbo cars in the future, and bad word of mouth is a hell of a killer, so I do not think that they would risk their name by knowingly selling a poor turbo to the Evo community.

I too am anxiously waiting for the Vishnu results. Worst case senario would be bad results across the board. If some are good and some are bad then I think the first thing to do would be to thouroughly go over the car looking for potential problems. Hell, I am going to the Home Depot tomorrow to get the parts to make a boost leak tester along with doing a compression and leak-down check. If the problem is not the cars then it would point to some turbos maybe being machined wrong. The best case senario would be everyone was happy with nice gains, but I honestly do not see that happening. Maybe we will know more tomorrow.

 

You guys need to lighten up. It was a freaking joke, geez. I think some of you need to get the hell out of this thread and go drive. Just have fun.

 

Al,

The ability to make 20-30 whp from this turbo has already been documented by my dynosheet. That increase was BEFORE it was tuned with the alcohol kit by Mark.

In fact, in one of the San Antonio meet threads, specifically the one about Mark from TT's tuning day, he even remarked that the "7:00pm WR pulled like crazy....."

So, is he changing his mind too? Was he blowing smoke up someone's a*s? That wouldn't be too cool, would it?

So either it DID pull like crazy or he was just saying something that he thought people would want to hear. I personally would like to know which one it is........

joeycoates is pretty correct in assuming that this scenario might cause things to be more prominent. I had no idea that my outlet junction from the IC was leaking. It seemed to hold fine with the stock turbo. After I found it and fixed it my WR performed much better. I still haven't even gotten around to buying and installing T-Bolt clamps yet, and I know that will probably help things out immeasureably.

I'm still running the stock BOV because the piece of sh*t Forge valve fluttered so badly I was afraid that it would screw up my car. I'm all about driveability and that kind of performance was unacceptable. So, if I could find a BOV that could hold big boost, but be as smooth as the stocker would my performance be even better....... sure would..........

I'll be back on the dyno on July 30th at the same place where I baselined before the WR and after the WR.

I don't know if they'll have time in their schedule, but I'd like to see if they could extract more than what's there. Mohammed at MZM who originally tuned the car the day of the WR install told me that the turbo felt really good but I was restricted in the amount of time that I gave him to tune it. Even so, I realized a 27hp increase and 21 lb/ft of TQ both at the same RPM as the stocker.

I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't expecting more power too. Heck, everyone prays that the next mod they do is going to make a world of difference......

BUT, I like the way the car feels. It's the fastest thing I've ever driven and I know that as good as I think I am, I'm nowhere near exploring the limits that it produce. In other words, it's still more car than I can handle at this time. Do I want more power......... YES!! who doesn't.......???

Peace,

Tony

 

just a question tony...and please don't think i'm trying to start any sh_t by asking this question. but......

if your WR is so great.....why are you SOOOOOOO god damn defensive about it?

let people talk...who cares....if you bought the turbo....and it preforms to your satisfaction......what does it matter what other's on some stupid forum say?