Patient Mr. White Rabbit on operating table
Great points and to that in a nut shell that would be the high end number for the WR risking bottom end saftey limits...understood.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
No one is doubting the value of having a nice easy bolt on turbo.
The way I am looking at this, the big question is wether its a nice 20 - 30 whp gain over a 2005 stock turbo which holds better boost and has a slightly more efficent compressor side which lowers charge temps . . .
OR
is it some freak of physics 140 whp transformation which nets you 441 whp on race gas with no cams and stock intake
I think the issue for myself is that this turbo has been maketed with what appears to me to be a totaly unrealistic and unobtabinable fantasy dyno mark which is virtually impossible to duplicate. People looking at the 441 figure will be very disapointed when they take their cars to the dyno.
It reminds me of the time I was on the dyno in Top Speed in Atlanta and a customer who really wanted mega power was doing a flash on a car with a stock turbo and alcohol injection.
After we reached about 375 tq and 350 whp at 24 psi I was ready to call it quits but the customer wanted more boost. After warning the customer that taking it any further was risky - I tuned the boost to 26.
After reaching almost 390 tq the customer still wanted more power and more boost
I warned him about 10 times about what would happen when he tosses a rod but he was ready to blow it up or break the dyno if needed to see what the limit was
Then the MBC line was zip tied and maximum bost was applied at which point 420 tq was achived which really made THIS customer happy.
My point is that I would never tune any other customer or even my own car to that level and it would be idiotic for me to promise that other dyno flash customers or alcohol kit customers should expect 420 tq.
Yes you can make a boat load of power on even the stock turbo - but its not wise to run your own car with timing, a/f and boost levels needed to replicate these kind of numbers
441 whp on a car with stock cams is more than you could make with a GT3037 which is a much larger turbo
441 whp is not something which you can expect on this WR turbo with a reasonable, conserative boost level
BTW - VP Import fuel which was used is $20 a gallon - is filled with oxygen and makes 5% more power than C-16 due to the extra oxegyn. If you are not planning on running $20 a gallon leaded race fuel you can take 25 whp righht off the top.
The way I am looking at this, the big question is wether its a nice 20 - 30 whp gain over a 2005 stock turbo which holds better boost and has a slightly more efficent compressor side which lowers charge temps . . .
OR
is it some freak of physics 140 whp transformation which nets you 441 whp on race gas with no cams and stock intake
I think the issue for myself is that this turbo has been maketed with what appears to me to be a totaly unrealistic and unobtabinable fantasy dyno mark which is virtually impossible to duplicate. People looking at the 441 figure will be very disapointed when they take their cars to the dyno.
It reminds me of the time I was on the dyno in Top Speed in Atlanta and a customer who really wanted mega power was doing a flash on a car with a stock turbo and alcohol injection.
After we reached about 375 tq and 350 whp at 24 psi I was ready to call it quits but the customer wanted more boost. After warning the customer that taking it any further was risky - I tuned the boost to 26.
After reaching almost 390 tq the customer still wanted more power and more boost
I warned him about 10 times about what would happen when he tosses a rod but he was ready to blow it up or break the dyno if needed to see what the limit was
Then the MBC line was zip tied and maximum bost was applied at which point 420 tq was achived which really made THIS customer happy.
My point is that I would never tune any other customer or even my own car to that level and it would be idiotic for me to promise that other dyno flash customers or alcohol kit customers should expect 420 tq.
Yes you can make a boat load of power on even the stock turbo - but its not wise to run your own car with timing, a/f and boost levels needed to replicate these kind of numbers
441 whp on a car with stock cams is more than you could make with a GT3037 which is a much larger turbo
441 whp is not something which you can expect on this WR turbo with a reasonable, conserative boost level
BTW - VP Import fuel which was used is $20 a gallon - is filled with oxygen and makes 5% more power than C-16 due to the extra oxegyn. If you are not planning on running $20 a gallon leaded race fuel you can take 25 whp righht off the top.
Hey Al, like i said, i wasn't trying to say anything bad about you at all....
i just know how things work when friends business is involved. and on another note, i highly respect your comments in the beginning of this thread about turbotrix and not taking this kids money. very commendable!
i just know how things work when friends business is involved. and on another note, i highly respect your comments in the beginning of this thread about turbotrix and not taking this kids money. very commendable!
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by evoviiiyou
Great points and to that in a nut shell that would be the high end number for the WR risking bottom end saftey limits...understood.
If the charge temps are lower than stock - it may be possible to run a more agressive tune on higher boost than on the stock turbo and make more power.
Also - denser air = more fuel can be burned.
Based upon how I saw it reacting on a fairly agressive tune, I would say the knock threshold will be significantly effected.
Agsin, more data is needed to draw any real conclusion other than that the 441 whp figure is unrealistic.
Just some friendly late night discussions.
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by gsujeff55
Hey Al, like i said, i wasn't trying to say anything bad about you at all....
i just know how things work when friends business is involved. and on another note, i highly respect your comments in the beginning of this thread about turbotrix and not taking this kids money. very commendable!
i just know how things work when friends business is involved. and on another note, i highly respect your comments in the beginning of this thread about turbotrix and not taking this kids money. very commendable!
Honestly - this WR thing is very interesting to me and I see myself more as a hobbiest and Evo owner than as a vendor in commenting on this turbo
As a guy who thinks about Evos all day and night . . . its good to see something that has the membership interested and excited
Right now I am deep into two steps, traction controls and anti lag programing which has aboyut zero application to the real world.
441 is realistic on WR, stock cams, vp import and aem ems, right? Not that this would be reccomended, but it can be had.
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I do see the WR being a nice kick *** 30 whp gain over stock and pulling harder to the red line - that would be more realistic to me.
If the charge temps are lower than stock - it may be possible to run a more agressive tune on higher boost than on the stock turbo and make more power.
Also - denser air = more fuel can be burned.
Based upon how I saw it reacting on a fairly agressive tune, I would say the knock threshold will be significantly effected.
Agsin, more data is needed to draw any real conclusion other than that the 441 whp figure is unrealistic.
If the charge temps are lower than stock - it may be possible to run a more agressive tune on higher boost than on the stock turbo and make more power.
Also - denser air = more fuel can be burned.
Based upon how I saw it reacting on a fairly agressive tune, I would say the knock threshold will be significantly effected.
Agsin, more data is needed to draw any real conclusion other than that the 441 whp figure is unrealistic.
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by Az3ar
oh, sorry it was not for you.
Time to go to bed
Time to go to bed
You never answered what I asked? Can I have a ride? and check your pm's
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Time to take my Evo for a little Bonzai run up and down the street before I load it on the trailer. I can only really run it at night these days as I need too much space in front of me to hit the gas and the roas are too crowded in the day time. Tomorrow we test the new Magnus intake with internal velocity stacks and then the big kahuna the new Buschur race fmic which is big enough that I finally had to go on a diet today or my car would weigh more than a stock one
evoviiiyou....06 Zoh?????
man, if i could have my evo and a new zoh id live in a trailor and my wife would divorce me.
i think ima settle for a SC 01 zoh! That car is a freaking beast. Buddy has one that runs 11.1@123 on an entry level blower with only headers and x pipe. not to mention a blast on the road course!
man, if i could have my evo and a new zoh id live in a trailor and my wife would divorce me.
i think ima settle for a SC 01 zoh! That car is a freaking beast. Buddy has one that runs 11.1@123 on an entry level blower with only headers and x pipe. not to mention a blast on the road course!
Try one Switzer built twin turbo 06 Zoh....hehe anyway I know this is off topic, I am done anyway. Out
Originally Posted by gsujeff55
evoviiiyou....06 Zoh?????
man, if i could have my evo and a new zoh id live in a trailor and my wife would divorce me.
i think ima settle for a SC 01 zoh! That car is a freaking beast. Buddy has one that runs 11.1@123 on an entry level blower with only headers and x pipe. not to mention a blast on the road course!
man, if i could have my evo and a new zoh id live in a trailor and my wife would divorce me.
i think ima settle for a SC 01 zoh! That car is a freaking beast. Buddy has one that runs 11.1@123 on an entry level blower with only headers and x pipe. not to mention a blast on the road course!
Just thought I would drop my 2cents on the new WR turbo aswell. I had a customer come up last week wanting me to retune his evo now that he got his new turbo installed (White Rabbit) and was very excited. I was more than happy to, as I have been hearing alot of hype about this new turbo and wanted to see how it stacked up against his stocker. Come to find out the turbo didn't perform like we had expected. The turbo seemed to spool quick, not much slower than stock but didn't hold boost like we had thought. It would still tapper down to 20psi at redline.
Anyhow here are the graphs, both runs were done on Racegas boost was set to spike 27-28psi and both would taper to 20psi at redline.
Run# 24 is the STOCK 03evo turbo
Run# 13 is the WR turbo.
Mod: 880cc injectors, AEM EMS, Intake pipe w/o maf, HKS 272cams, 3" turbo back exhaust, ceramic coated Ebay header, upper and lower intercooler piping.
Still on stock intake, intercooler, head un-ported, block
Anyhow here are the graphs, both runs were done on Racegas boost was set to spike 27-28psi and both would taper to 20psi at redline.
Run# 24 is the STOCK 03evo turbo
Run# 13 is the WR turbo.
Mod: 880cc injectors, AEM EMS, Intake pipe w/o maf, HKS 272cams, 3" turbo back exhaust, ceramic coated Ebay header, upper and lower intercooler piping.
Still on stock intake, intercooler, head un-ported, block
Last edited by BadazzCR; Jul 15, 2005 at 08:36 PM.
Originally Posted by BadazzCR
Just thought I would drop my 2cents on the new WR turbo aswell. I had a customer come up last week wanting me to retune his evo now that he got his new turbo installed (White Rabbit) and was very excited. I was more than happy to, as I have been hearing alot of hype about this new turbo and wanted to see how it stacked up against his stocker. Come to find out the turbo didn't perform like we had expected. The turbo seemed to spool quick, not much slower than stock but didn't hold boost like we had thought. It would still tapper down to 20psi at redline.
Anyhow here are the graphs, both runs were done on Racegas boost was set to spike 27-28psi and both would taper to 20psi at redline.
Run# 24 is the STOCK 03evo turbo
Run# 13 is the WR turbo.
Mod: 880cc injectors, AEM EMS, Intake pipe w/o maf, HKS 272cams, 3" turbo back exhaust, ceramic coated Ebay header, upper and lower intercooler piping.
Still on stock intake, intercooler, head un-ported, block
Anyhow here are the graphs, both runs were done on Racegas boost was set to spike 27-28psi and both would taper to 20psi at redline.
Run# 24 is the STOCK 03evo turbo
Run# 13 is the WR turbo.
Mod: 880cc injectors, AEM EMS, Intake pipe w/o maf, HKS 272cams, 3" turbo back exhaust, ceramic coated Ebay header, upper and lower intercooler piping.
Still on stock intake, intercooler, head un-ported, block
I am soo happy i stopped my order and decided to go a different route. This is a BIG dissapointment for alot of people on this forum.