100% agree.

I would like to thank Burningmoney97 for starting this thread, and Nisei along with Buschur racing for both putting out great products.

Best thing about this thread to me was that when Dave Buschur saw comperable results from the Nisei FMIC and looked at the price difference between them it propted him to work out a deal to buy his cores in larger lots to get a better price on them, allowing him to offer his FMIC at a comperable price to the Niesi FMIC.

Thanks,

Keith

PS: In a situation like this the customer is the true winner

 

Why is anyone saying that the pressure drop is the cause of sub-ambient temperatures? We do all realize that atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.7 psi, right? A 1psi difference in anything is negligable and certainly not enough to drop temps 7deg below ambient.

Thanks for the testing alot Dave , and I'm sorry everone is having such a hard time with this.

 

Yup, I was trying to be funny, and if I came off as being mean I apologize.
Your equations and explanation are correct if the water is at ambient temperature. If you take a pot of water at 190F out into a fog (100% relative humidity area) it will still steam... this is an observable fact that you can demonstrate to yourself on a foggy day. And here is why it works. in steaming, the pot of water heats the ambient air allowing it to accept more moisture. As soon as this very hot moist air cools down just a bit the water vapor will condens out into droplets. In fact, if you do this you can create a "localized" rain storm right near your pot of hot water
By "dry" I mean in a laymens terms dry. As in not saturated, (fog or rain).

In order to cool below ambient the water vapor in the air would have to "stick" to the intercooler fins and then evaporate. The only way for this to happen would be for the intercooler to already be below ambient in order for the water vapor to condense on the fins. This is not ever going to happen. The only way for it to work is for the water to already be in liquid form AND reletive humidity being below 100% (the lower the better). This only would happen with a sprayer of some kind.

Keith

 

Questions answered further down the page.

 

Something was wrong then. We just put one an EVO and picked up 15whp with the IC and LICP, this was at roughly 290-300whp level. Possibly you had a boost leak?

 

I'm thoroughly confused. Please excuse the stupid questions because I have never dealt with AEM and the last time I was involved with a turbo engine was quite a while ago.

How do you prevent boost runaway if there is no reading of pressure anywhere? Purely mechanically off wastegate spring pressure? If yes, then why is there mention of BC? Where does that BC read pressure reading from?

 

Martin/AMS,
This is hardly scientific, but about a year and a half ago, I went from the stock 03 turbo and intercooler to the TME 6.5 and the AMS intercooler and LICP. I drove up to Vishnu to get retuned and my results so significant, that they could not really be explained by the TME turbo alone. I made a full 30 more whp on pump gas and 20 more hp on race gas. The torque gains were huge throughout the curve, but that I attributed to the 10.5 hotside. Everybody involved knew that your intercooler played a significant role in these results.

BTW, the reason I bought your intercooler in the first place was twofold: first, Shiv endorsed it (and, as everyone knows, he is a minimalist and is very slow to endorse aftermarket parts unless they really work). Then, while visiting Road Race Engineering, "Honda" Robert had one of your ICs and was very impressed with its build quality and design and he also recommended it.

The results? First time out to the track with the TME 6.5 and your intercooler:
11.9 at 115 on race gas
12.2 at 112 on 91 octane

to AMS

 

Nisei/Rob/Kevin,
First of all, I was VERY reluctant to let go of my AMS Intercooler in favor of the Nisei. But, I figured with a 35R and built 2.3 stroker motor, that your larger core would probably be advantageous, so I agreed to give it a try. Here are a couple of observations:
1. It fit perfect AND the front bumper beam fit too. Without that beam drivers risk a) having their valuable intercooler, piping, and turbo kits damaged with just a very low speed front collision, and b) sacrificing passenger safety at higher speeds.

2. Your upper and lower IC piping fit perfect and is show-quality. The smooth flat black is mean as hell looking. The lower piping uses an effective brace that connects to the OEM brace location. Unfortunately, I couldn't use it with my AMS 35R kit. However, either by luck or by design, your IC inlet matched up perfectly with the AMS LICP that came with their kit.

3. Hardware: Your use of super high quality formed silicone couplers AND expensive Dixon t-bolt clamps shows your commitment to preventing leaks, blown off couplers, and stripped clamps.

4. Customer service: I called Rob at MyEvoStore.com yesterday and he was very responsive to my few concerns (posted earlier) and has given me assurances that my concerns are already being addressed.

 

Ok,

Sorry if I confused you, but the way you worded your post about the pressure drop. this is how I read it:

if a vendor posts a pressure drop figure of a particular intercooler, they are posting how much more the drop is compared to standard, in other words saying that the std cooler is the base (zero point) and that the aftermarket has a drop of 1 psi, meaning it will have a pressure drop of 1 psi more than std.

That is how I read your post, sorry for the confusion as I was just trying to illustrate a point with the numbers I used.

Mike

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourdoor

Your equations and explanation are correct if the water is at ambient temperature. If you take a pot of water at 190F out into a fog (100% relative humidity area) it will still steam... this is an observable fact that you can demonstrate to yourself on a foggy day. And here is why it works. in steaming, the pot of water heats the ambient air allowing it to accept more moisture. As soon as this very hot moist air cools down just a bit the water vapor will condens out into droplets. In fact, if you do this you can create a "localized" rain storm right near your pot of hot water .

Keith, you’re absolutely right. I was assuming that the air was saturated with the pot example. But yeah, if the pot is giving off atomic energy, then it will heat the local air, and in turn increase how much water it can hold. Then it wouldn’t be saturated anymore and the steam would evaporate. We’re on the same page!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourdoor

In order to cool below ambient the water vapor in the air would have to "stick" to the intercooler fins and then evaporate. The only way for this to happen would be for the intercooler to already be below ambient in order for the water vapor to condense on the fins. This is not ever going to happen. The only way for it to work is for the water to already be in liquid form AND reletive humidity being below 100% (the lower the better). This only would happen with a sprayer of some kind.

This, too, is right on about water condensation. However, it’s still possible to cool the air below ambient without a sprayer. For example, say you’re swapping intercoolers. During the time it takes you to swap intercoolers though, the temps drop 10 degrees or so. Then moisture in the air will condense on, say, the intercooler itself. So when you first start driving around the core will see some type of wind. Evaporative cooling will now take place and lower the core below ambient. You will keep driving and the core will see more wind and since it is cooler than ambient, condensation will take place. From then on, it’s possible for the core to maintain below ambient temps the whole time as long as the relative humidity is between 1-99%.

 

i'd go with nisei

 

Well looks like I missed a lot of action again, alot has been said already. I think I'll just sum it up like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbuschur

My guess is our standard or Deluxe will make atleast the same gains and our race will flat out stomp it.

Well if thats getting stomped, then its really not much of a difference. I think someone already made the point of the dyno runs and how the same car will not repeat the same #'s as the previous run.

Now, that is a truly interesting point.


Well I guess this is just part one, I'm VERY interested to see what the Nisei Competition Intercooler will do.....

To be continued.

 

Dave is in the process of setting up his AEM to control boost. When you first set up the boost with the AEM you manually input the wastegate solenoid duty cycle into the boost control chart. Then you do a run on the dyno to see what your resulting boost pressure was. With a good load bearing dyno it is pretty easy to dial in your settings. But this is just your "base map" with no compensation for weather conditions or changes in your system (like changing out the FMIC). After you have the base map set up you put in your feedback parameters in a seperate little map in the AEM program.

Hope this helps,

Keith

 

The way you would get moisture on your intercooler would be if air temperature (and humidity) rise while your intercooler is still cold (say, from sitting overnight). Then the warm moist air hitting your cold FMIC will condense out a little moisture. I can go with that.

Now, in the process of condensing that moisture the FMIC temperature goes up. This is what a phase change from vapor to liquid is all about, a transfer of heat from the warm water vapor to the cold FMIC is what allows the water vapor to change phase from a vapor into it's liquid state. This transfer of heat engergy warms up the FMIC to the new ambient temperature.

Now you take your FMIC at ambient temperater covered in water droplets and go for a drive. For about the first min of driving (if you never hit boost at all and inlet temps into the FMIC stay low) you will have a minor amount of sub-cooling of the FMIC outlet air. After about a min of driving (at the extreme... probably a much shorter time) all that water vapor has evaporated.... this act of evaporation is what carrys the "extra" heat away from the FMIC which results in the sub-cooling in the first place.

If getting your intercooler cold and moist once meant it stayed cold and moist forever you would have invented a perpetual motion machine. Every machine is a heat engine of some kind, and if you discover one that violates the laws of conservation of energy you will be a very rich man (or assasinated by the oil companies).

Keith

 

So ..what have you found other than safety for the passengers in a high speed collision, fittment and customer service? What about the performance? was it better?, worst?any dyno? any testing on the roads to see boost?