Dave,
did I understand you correctly?

"BTW, the temps would be rediculously high just from experience in feeling end tanks. I'd bet this particular set up would see outlet temps in the high 170's F."

were you saying that a stock intercooler would be 170 degrees instead of the 64.4 degrees in your log?

 

A picture is worth a thousand words (great words in this case)

 

uhm... you mean the words that are written in?

to be honest... i can't see **** and on top of that... i can't see **** AND it's written in. i'm not saying that i doubt... i'm just saying if you wanna present the data then do it with the cursor over the values and the screen shots. why would you write it in and point and label?

well lemme tell yah why... cuz honestly... you don't HAVE to... you can pull anything outta anywhere and people will worship it and tell you how amazing your are and how much you've done for them... but knowing that means you should make yourself and your data beyond reproach... cuz obviously no one is gonna reproach you.

and who thinks 50 degrees is "warm" you guys needa break out the board shorts and see some socal sun! :] at 50* i'm freezing my *** off.

 

The point of your test was not to show how good your RACE core was. It was (allegedly) supposed to show that 1) Nisei’s tests are inaccurate and 2) your standard core is a much better core than the Nisei core. Your test showed neither of these. And since you knew there was no way in hell that your standard core could compete with the Nisei standard core, you tested your RACE core against Nisei’s core (probably thinking that your core would stomp it). That didn’t happen either. You were the one doing all the doubting from the beginning.

By the way, why does it matter that you have actual street pulls? You already had the “fairest” data from the dyno right?

 

tryndex/bbar, would you have preferred that David not share this information at all? If so, you are very much in the minority. And if you don't believe the numbers, then don't believe them and move on. bbar, David has acknowledged that the Nisei would likely outperform the standard and deluxe FMICs, and that the Nisei is very close in performance to his Race FMIC. What more do you want?

 

am i saying that? no...

what was i saying? if you notice i post in almost all the buschur threads, i don't think i ever attack buschur, who i do attack is the mindless followers. why? because that's what this forum needs... more people that expose the bull and snap people out of their mindlessness.

i have plenty of complaints with the br test, he coulda done many pulls... but he only did one of each, and all the numbers are within standard deviations of each other. it is not an all conclusive test at all.

there are two problems here... br is not perfect and his fans are not smart enough. if one of these weren't true then i wouldn't have to point things out so often. br does not present his data in the most irreproachable way, and i say he has that right, he doesn't owe anyone anything.

the problem is people are so dumb and they just gobble it up, one pull each... and they gobble it up right away and concede that the buschur is superior and the only difference it maybe price and fitment. all that for one pull..... you people are fantastic.

then there's you who says that perhaps i prefered him not to show the data at all... that's not the case... i'd prefer people read it for what it's worth. bbar showed better data... yet somehow his **** is questioned. he showed the real deal... the screen shots... the labeled points... his **** was not WRITTEN ON THE PAPER... the temps were not a flat line that span a mm on the screen yet somehow show a 5* difference in temperature. you people are fantastic.

50 degree weather... for all those that wanted to yak about heat transfer all day why have you not all come up and said newton's law of heat transfer states that temperature differential is the only thing that matters in heat transfer... the greater the difference the greater the transfer. i would even expect the greddy vspec to do well in 50* weather (of course not as well as either of these cores, but it'd be ok, 50* is colder than ****).

 

I'm no more impressed with "fan-boys", than I am with ill written attempts by "anti-fan boys"... I hope you re-read your "who you attack" post /\ and think about it vs. them. I agree about the mindless minions who follow all the camps... but your delivery is lacking to the point that it's message falls right in line with them.

Back on topic...

 

I could have posted the complete AEM log. The log I took of this car was not to only log the few parameters that I posted. The log that was running in the car (as doing this post was an after thought) had 25 different parameters I was logging. I cannot edit those other parameters out of the log and post it to be viewed with AEM Log software. That would be much easier but I have no desire to put up timing tables, AFR and all the other parameters that make a car run well for everyone else to look at. There is enough EMS software/mapping copying going on as it is.


BBar, please open you mind and eyes.

The reason it matters that I have some street pulls now is on the dyno the airflow sucks. The dyno testing was extremely fair and couldn't have been done any fairer than it was. BUT these street pull numbers can now be compared to Nisei's street pulls where they showed their numbers with street air flow. I believe that you are wrong and that this test does show that I STOMPED there numbers with equal airflow through the intercooler. Look at the numbers for yourself.

Even with the correct data some of you guys still refuse to see the facts. Wow, that is what is called ignorant.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Dave, I take it you did indeed mean a stock unit would be running 100 degrees hotter under the same conditions.

I understand that is your impression based on experience, still more than I would have thought.

 

Sorry nothere, got fired up as usual and missed you question.

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised to see the temps 100 degrees over the starting temps with the stock intercooler.

Al was running a core similar to the size of our deluxe kit last summer. The core manufacturer I believe was the same. Anyway, he was reporting outlet temps at and above 170 degrees F. He switched to our race FMIC and the temps dropped around 70 degrees if I remember correctly.

This was in the heat of the summer on a car making more HP than the intercooler is rated for. A worste case scenario.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

I have made some unbaised posts in one of Buschurs other IC threads. That should help clear things up for some people. Go check them out if you want to see the "Deluxe" FMIC temps. Again, these were pulls done in low 20 degrees ambient temp. Obviously the best conditions for an IC to work at. Once it gets warm we can test the efficiency then.

Also, I am pretty sure that Buschurs IC is a Spearco IC anyways. I think Spearco is known to make decent stuff

 

I'm sorry but we do not use Spearco cores.

Jarrod
Buschur Racing Inc.

 

Oh, well nevermind then. I know for the DSMs you use them I figured it was the same for the Evos At anyrate, the ICs are nice regardless of who makes them (Whos cores do you use btw?)

 

Awhile back we used Spearco cores. We did some testing on some various cores and found the new ones to work even better. We use a Garrett core now. The DSM Race FMIC's are still Spearco cores. Everything else we build is Garrett. We have used Garrett cores for about 1.5 years now.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

David,

I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Which test of yours showed your core “stomping” the Nisei core? Was it the dyno test or the street pulls you posted up?

If it was the street pull you posted, then where is the pull with the Nisei core on the car so we can compare? Or were you talking about comparing my log of the Nisei core with your log of your core (which, by the way, was done more than 2000 miles away from where you did your log)? Nonetheless, whatever you were talking about, your core did not “stomp” the Nisei core.

If you were talking about comparing it to my street log (which I did on the opposite side of the country), then your RACE core was cooler than the Nisei core by either zero (0) degrees (that’s 5.4 – 5.4) or 3.6 degrees (that’s 5.4 – 1.8). It’s hard to tell what’s going on with your “log.” (You should just post the actual file already.) Anyway, I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt and ASSUME that your temps were 3.6 degrees cooler at the top of fourth than the NISEI (which, more than likely, was not the case). Considering these two logs were taken on different days, with different temperatures, pressures, relative humidity, and more than 2000 miles apart from each other, is 3.6 degrees considered STOMPING?

On the other hand, if you were saying that your core “stomped” the Nisei core with your dyno test, then I also have something to say about that. Your core made a 5 HP gain along with a whopping 1 lb torque increase. I’ve seen bigger differences with back-to-back dyno pulls using the same car with the EXACT same setup. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that the car was boosting almost 1psi (according to secretive you who will not post the logs) less with the Nisei core. So again, is this STOMPING?

Also, continuing on with your “fairest test possible” on the dyno, in third gear with the air moving across the core at some static speed x, both difference between the baseline temps and the top of third temps were within 1.8 degrees of each other. Is this STOMPING?

Moreover, since you even acknowledge that there is a difference between dyno condition and real world conditions

You said it here:
you cannot say that since both cores exchanged heat at approximately the same rate given the dyno conditions, they will exchange heat at the same rate given real world conditions. Who knows, maybe your core would exchange heat way better than the Nisei core in real world conditions (though, I doubt it). My point is that this test was not the fairest possible test as you claimed. Maybe a good test would be something like this: assume that colder air and less pressure drop = more power. Then the dyno becomes irrelevant and you can now test in real world conditions. You then put a pressure sensor and a temp sensor in each end tank. Log the core, and then you can see pressure drop, inlet/outlet temps (or heat exchanging capability) as well as spool-up characteristics. That is a fair (as well as a REAL) test. This IS what Nisei did in the first place.