2nd coke can test on downpipe
Jun 29, 2006, 06:46 AM
#271
Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Do it. I would let 150 of the units sell to the fanboi's before breaking the news that the $110-200 Megan Racing or ebay type units perform the same or better than the expensive, cast, non-chambered versions. 
Jun 29, 2006, 07:24 AM
#272
its quite amazing that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about....and that your "dyno testing" consists of a beer cans. its been said before in this thread just because the opening of the dp isn't 3" dosent mean its not going to make as much power as one that is. and its been proven that the buschur exhaust makes as much if not more than anyone elses. your friend is the smartest one of whoever did this "test" just for buying that exhaust.
Jun 29, 2006, 08:37 AM
#273
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Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
"Results from the stainless steel ceramic coated 02 housing we sell with the 3" flanged downpipe:
Maximum horsepower was 373 and maximum torque was 388. Average HP was 326 and average torque was 330.
Next we pulled our 02 housing off, installed the Works 02 housing. The Works housing fits, all the bolts can be installed, the 02 sensor port is in the correct spot. The results:
Maximum horsepower was 369 and maximum torque was 385. Average HP was 320 and average torque was 325.
Next we pulled the Works housing off and installed, or attempted to install the Invidia. Bottom line is it fits like crap. Two bolts will actually go in, one or two other are impossible and a third is also crap. There is a hole that has been welded shut on the housing from a mistake from where someone thought the 02 sensor should go, then they moved it to a different spot which is also a freaking mistake as the factory 02 sensor wiring is stretched so tight that it is going to fail. Not impressed with the thought that went into this part. From a performance design though, looking at it I would have guessed the power would have been really good. The results:
Maximum horsepower was 369 and maximum torque was 385. Average horsepower was 317 and aveage torque was 322.
Bottom line is pretty simple here. The car doesn't need, want or benefit from a huge 02 housing or from a 3" flange on the downpipe. You are best off to run the E-bay style housing that is a fraction of the cost, fits and makes the most power we have seen from any of the housings. "
Maximum horsepower was 373 and maximum torque was 388. Average HP was 326 and average torque was 330.
Next we pulled our 02 housing off, installed the Works 02 housing. The Works housing fits, all the bolts can be installed, the 02 sensor port is in the correct spot. The results:
Maximum horsepower was 369 and maximum torque was 385. Average HP was 320 and average torque was 325.
Next we pulled the Works housing off and installed, or attempted to install the Invidia. Bottom line is it fits like crap. Two bolts will actually go in, one or two other are impossible and a third is also crap. There is a hole that has been welded shut on the housing from a mistake from where someone thought the 02 sensor should go, then they moved it to a different spot which is also a freaking mistake as the factory 02 sensor wiring is stretched so tight that it is going to fail. Not impressed with the thought that went into this part. From a performance design though, looking at it I would have guessed the power would have been really good. The results:
Maximum horsepower was 369 and maximum torque was 385. Average horsepower was 317 and aveage torque was 322.
Bottom line is pretty simple here. The car doesn't need, want or benefit from a huge 02 housing or from a 3" flange on the downpipe. You are best off to run the E-bay style housing that is a fraction of the cost, fits and makes the most power we have seen from any of the housings. "
Jun 30, 2006, 06:46 PM
#277
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Sketchy? I dont think thats the right word to use. There was no tuning involved, they bolted them up and ran them. Simple as that.
there is a spread of 40hp apparently in both directions as it's the deviation from the peak to the average....
there was no tuning done.
how many pulls?
cool down? like what was done? who knows... is that solid info? hardly. am i asking too much, probably... but ****, why shouldn't i?
buschur's test of the nisei intercooler was even more detailed than this... and we waited longer. this is crap. am i allowed to say that? of course. does br have to do anything about it? hell no. but it's crap. i poop on it.
Jun 30, 2006, 06:52 PM
#278
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Originally Posted by trinydex
whys that not the right word to use? what's unsketch about this "data"
there is a spread of 40hp apparently in both directions as it's the deviation from the peak to the average....
there was no tuning done.
how many pulls?
cool down? like what was done? who knows... is that solid info? hardly. am i asking too much, probably... but ****, why shouldn't i?
buschur's test of the nisei intercooler was even more detailed than this... and we waited longer. this is crap. am i allowed to say that? of course. does br have to do anything about it? hell no. but it's crap. i poop on it.
there is a spread of 40hp apparently in both directions as it's the deviation from the peak to the average....
there was no tuning done.
how many pulls?
cool down? like what was done? who knows... is that solid info? hardly. am i asking too much, probably... but ****, why shouldn't i?
buschur's test of the nisei intercooler was even more detailed than this... and we waited longer. this is crap. am i allowed to say that? of course. does br have to do anything about it? hell no. but it's crap. i poop on it.
Yes there was no tuning done.. why? Buschur answered in the other thread:
"I DIDN'T DO ANY RETUNING WITH THAT PART AND IT PICKED THE CAR UP 13-15 WHP!! Maybe I should have re-tuned the car then too. Problem is sometimes a retune isn't going to do anything. When I look at a datalog and the AFR's stay the same, the knock count stays the same and the boost only varies over a 4,000 rpm test by a maximu of .9 psi there is NOTHING TO ****ING RETUNE."
Time inbetween pulls... well they had to take off an 02 housing and put it back on, its not a 10m job so figure the time it took to go on and off. Temperature was stable 1-2 degrees in the dyno room from start to finishi IIRC. You can ask Buschur, Im sure he'd address the question as he has to almost everyone in that thread.
Last edited by Soon2BEVO; Jun 30, 2006 at 06:55 PM.
Jun 30, 2006, 07:38 PM
#279
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Soon2BEVO: The above mentioned .9 psi boost difference above happened to be in the favor of the testers (suggested) part. If you would like to see what .9 psi can do on the dyno, then try it next time you are on the dyno. General rule of thumb is 10 hp per psi of boost pressure increase. Not always accurate, sometimes more, sometime less. To say this test was 100% accurate is not true. However I do give David B a thumbs up for his hard work in doing this test.
I dont think any tuning needed to be done, however the boost controlling device should be adjusted to keep the same boost pressure.
I give you an overexaggerated example. Suppose you put in cams on your ride and you go with extremely aggressive cams and the boost falls off 3 psi after the cam install. This drop of boost pressure is totally due to the fact that the cams are flowing more air and the turbo and the boost controlling device are unable to keep the boost pressure consistent. If you were evaluating how much power the cams gave you, would you adjust the boost to make the boost back to the way it was previously or just leave it 3 psi less and say the cams gave you that much power?? I think most people usually turn the boost back up to the PRE CAM install boost pressure to get an ACCURATE power increase.
So I believe that with even boost pressure with all three O2 housings, the bigger housing will AT LEAST make the same as the Ebay with Buschur downpipe, and MORE THAN LIKELY make slightly more.
I think Buschurs information does tell us one thing. You dont get an equal amount or HP/dollar power increase with all 3 combinations. The $450 one, which I like alot, does not give you more than twice the power increase of the cheapest alternative. So choose wisely, and get which one you like. I like the stealty approach and prefer perfect fitment, so my choice is clear. If Coke cans fitment are important to you, then you have only 2 choices, of the ones that were tested. LOL
YRMV..
Brian
I dont think any tuning needed to be done, however the boost controlling device should be adjusted to keep the same boost pressure.
I give you an overexaggerated example. Suppose you put in cams on your ride and you go with extremely aggressive cams and the boost falls off 3 psi after the cam install. This drop of boost pressure is totally due to the fact that the cams are flowing more air and the turbo and the boost controlling device are unable to keep the boost pressure consistent. If you were evaluating how much power the cams gave you, would you adjust the boost to make the boost back to the way it was previously or just leave it 3 psi less and say the cams gave you that much power?? I think most people usually turn the boost back up to the PRE CAM install boost pressure to get an ACCURATE power increase.
So I believe that with even boost pressure with all three O2 housings, the bigger housing will AT LEAST make the same as the Ebay with Buschur downpipe, and MORE THAN LIKELY make slightly more.
I think Buschurs information does tell us one thing. You dont get an equal amount or HP/dollar power increase with all 3 combinations. The $450 one, which I like alot, does not give you more than twice the power increase of the cheapest alternative. So choose wisely, and get which one you like. I like the stealty approach and prefer perfect fitment, so my choice is clear. If Coke cans fitment are important to you, then you have only 2 choices, of the ones that were tested. LOL
YRMV..
Brian
Jul 1, 2006, 06:00 AM
#280
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Originally Posted by TURBODAWG
I think Buschurs information does tell us one thing. You dont get an equal amount or HP/dollar power increase with all 3 combinations. The $450 one, which I like alot, does not give you more than twice the power increase of the cheapest alternative. So choose wisely, and get which one you like. I like the stealty approach and prefer perfect fitment, so my choice is clear. If Coke cans fitment are important to you, then you have only 2 choices, of the ones that were tested. LOL
Jul 3, 2006, 11:35 AM
#282
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
You guys are killing me.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
Jul 3, 2006, 11:43 AM
#283
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
You guys are killing me.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
Jul 3, 2006, 11:44 AM
#284
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
You guys are killing me.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
I won't perform anymore testing. Please all you doubters pool your money and buy/rent a dyno and take your own time to test parts.
Noooooooooooooo... Please ... We need these tests.
.
Jul 3, 2006, 05:19 PM
#285
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Honestly, I wouldn't blame the guy...he spends hours swapping parts and getting on and off the dyno out of his own time and people bash him and complain about how the results are worthless...I will say though...I bought all buschur parts due to his testing and results so it does have a positive effect.
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