Yay for being back on topic

 

bringing this from the dead...any updates?

 

Since this was brought back from death............

Just had an EVO Green on the dyno Friday, 94 octane, stock shortblock, stock head, 394 whp.

This is in response to the questions on page 5.

David Buschur

 

This post makes the 20-9-5 look stupid. There is no way the new green (20g-9-5LT) makes 48whp more over the old 20-9-5. THEY HAVE THE SAME COMPRESSOR WHEEL! So either huge details where left out on this back to back car (like AEM-speed density-better tuning). Or the original 20g was crap and should never have been sold. Track times prove the later to not be true.

As I remember the back to back test on the first the car picked up 20whp on pump, and 10whp on race. At the same time loosing that Killer low torque that the 20g-9-5 was good for. A back to back at the track would have proven on race gas the turbo is good for maybe 1 mph at the track according to the 10whp gain.

There is a magazine on newstands right now with the time attack car boasting 405whp, 423 torque from the 20g-9-5 on burschur md500 mustang dyno.

The 20gLT is good for 40whp on pump and about 60whp on race over a 16g-8 according to numerous consumer posts. The 20g-9-5 was good for 20-25whp on pump and 35-40whp on race over the 16g.

And lets not forget curt browns car that went 10.59 at 127 on the evo8 16g. And went 10.5? at 129 on the 20gLT (423whp on md500). Only one pass but prolly a better back to back than your car which suppossedly gained 40whp going from 20g-9-5 to 20gLT.

The 20gLT is a great turbo. Just trying to clarify results with it.

 

I received my GT3076 Turdbo several weeks ago, but had to divert a substantial amount of funds for the RB26 project so it is now taking back seat. I don't want to install it until I have all the parts at once.

 

Bobby's car that made the 413 whp, you are correct, sorry. The car had the turbo changed to the green and the AEM EMS put on. I am not going to go back and look at what all was said and talked about but I am surprised I left that out.

I don't really think you are trying to clarify anything, discredit anything I say is probably closer to what is trying to be done. It's all good as I don't care.

394 whp is what we've made now on the green, just did it Friday on straight 94 octane.

 

Dave just to satisfy his questions/attacks whats the most whp and tq you have made on pump gas on any modified stock turbo and then what about on the green.

Scorke

 

scorke, I don't remember the most I have made on the 20g-9-5 turbo on pump. I am sure someone else here does. I'd say in the 350 range if I had to guess. Friday I made 394 on the green on just straight pump gas.

 

There you go, the Green is good for 30-40 whp more than the 20g-9-5 turbo on pump gas.

Am I making things up or are these not the sort of things you have been claiming all along, and havent people who have been running the Green been seeing similar results?

I just dont understand how some people are so skeptical when there has been so much testing both in house and independently regarding this turbo and it's results....

Scorke

 

There is no reason to doubt the potential of this turbo. Some people just like to bash things for no good reason.

 

Dave,

What were the mods on the car when you made 394whp on your dyno with the green? Was it a 8 or 9? That is crazy power for straight pump gas. That is like over 450whp on pump! Move over 50-trim!

~fred

 

To 94awd's credit, the post he copied that I made does seem confusing even to me at this point. As I said, I am too lazy to go back and read it all.

The car I made 394 whp with is set up like it should be, and that's why it works. Here's what it has:

BR Stages 1-4, with race FMIC, HKS 280 cams, 1,000 cc injectors

BR ported intake
BR 65 mm throttle body
BR ported coated 10.5 housing, exhaust manifold SS 02 housing
EVO Green turbo
AEM EMS

The head and shortblock are 100% bone stock and so is the ignition system. We actually encountered some ignition problems on the dyno. Changed to a fresh set of spark plugs, didn't help. Then we changed his spark plug wires from the original 30,000+ miles to a new set of stock wires and the car ran flawlessly.

Great car, real nice engine bay. Of course I am going to give a shameless plug that EVERY single part on the car is from our shop. This is the highest pump gas Green we have seen to date.

Keep in mind that 420hp/430 torque was made on Trevor's car last week on E85, his car is also 100% BR.

Not to say other combo's don't make good power. Bobby's car made 413 whp with about 50% our stuff and 50% others, he did that on pump/alky. His car is a freak as he ran 11.2 at 124+ on the 20g-9-5 with pump/alky and a flash.

Sorry, just realized this is a revhard manifold thread and I got way off course..

David Buschur

 

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No problem Dave. I will pull up the quote fro you since you dont care.
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Quote from Dave:
"2004 Evolution.

Stock engine, head, intake, throttle body, valve springs-retainers.

272 cams from a company I don't like
3" turbo back from someone other than us
DC Sports header
SS 02 housing
Forged Boost controller
Forged BOV
Our deluxe FMIC
Our upper i/c pipe
SMC alky kit
HKS intake pipe and HKS style mushroom filter

This car on pump gas with a little 110 mixed in and alky made 364 whp and 354 torque WITH the 20g-9-5. The car ran 11.28 at 124 mph. On straight pump and alky it made 349 whp and 308 ft lbs on that same 20g-9-5.

So we installed the new 20gLT-Green turbo yesterday. I tuned it with the flash at the same 25 psi of boost with pump/alky and the car made 361 whp and 317 ft lbs.

I then turned the boost up to 31 psi, added C16, left the alky on and tuned it again. I was only able to make 372 whp and 356 ft lbs of torque. I tried as hard as I could to make more. The factory ECU just wasn't cooperating."

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So the numbers are 12whp improvement on pump and 8 whp on race. Hardly the 40whp you keep telling people. This is without switching to AEM. The AEM allows more accurate timing and eliminates the mass. On this car it picks up 40 whp switching to AEM. My observation is the switch to AEM made 40whp gain. My question to dave was what would the numbers have been if the switch to AEM was made when the 20g-9-5 was on the car. His response was the car wouldn't have made more than 380-390. Which would only be a 10-20whp gain. So why is the AEM worth 40whp when there is a 20gLT on the car, but only worth 10-20whp when there is a 20g-9-5 on the car? The point I have been trying to make is this 20gLT is worth 10-15whp more than the 20g-9-5. Not the 40hp dave keeps quoting. According FP there were only a handful of 20g-9-5 turbos ever made. So there isn't alot of data to support how good they are. The only difference between the two turbos is the size of the turbine wheel. It isn't going to make 40whp more from a turbine change. In the dsm world dave swears the 20g mated to a clipped td05 is more effective than a 20g mated to a td06. Now in the reverse rotation turbo the largere turbine is all of a sudden worth 40whp. I am quite certain there is plenty of data to say otherwise. The problem so far is there are only two cars that switched to 20gLt from the 20g-9-5. daves car which gained 40whp, and the car above that gained 12whp.

Here is another very good example of what I am saying. This car had AEM and 16g and it gained 36whp and 28tq. This is not a 20g-9-5 car but a well setup 16g car that was upgraded to a 20gLT. It only gained 36whp over a 16g. My question is what would the 20g-9-5 have made on this car? Before dave had 20gLT to sell he would always say the 20g-9-5 was good for 30-35whp over the 16g on a well setup car. I can pull up three or four posts that prove the 20g-9-5 was a worthy upgrade according to the buschur upgrade path.

The only way this point can be proven is for a well setup 20gLT car to switch to the 20g-9-5 and see how much it looses. I would bet my last dollar it doesnt loose more than 20hp.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????

Another quote from Dave:

"Dyno'd yet another EVO Green/20gLT turbo today. Customer is Eric has our Stages 1-4 on the car. He is running an AEM EMS and when he installed the new turbo decided to upgrade the injectors to 1,000 cc's so he would not have to change them again for a larger turbo if he decided to go that route.

The car has been on the dyno before. Last time it was on the dyno it had stock injectors and the stock 2005 turbo on it. The car has a SS 02 housing on it. The exhaust manifold was and still is unported. The turbine housing on his stock turbo and the turbine housing on his new Green/LT turbo is also not ported.

So the only change he made to make more HP this time compared to last time is the turbo itself. No additional port work, he has always had a 10.5 housing on the car and the manifold remains unported. This is a test of the turbo ONLY as it was the only change that could effect horsepower.

So with the stock turbo this car was damn strong to begin with. It made about the most I have seen from a stock turbo set up.

On 94 octane with no alky on the stock turbo (car doesn't have an alky kit on it) 347 whp and 307 ft lbs of torque. This is very good.

On C16 on the stock turbo the car made 374 whp and 372 ft lbs of torque, that is amazing.

After changing the turbo the car made 367 whp and 310 ft lbs of torque on 94 octane . That's a 20 whp improvement. The torque is deceiving. Eric's car is having a boost control issue. It is running MORE boost in the mid range than it is at 3500 rpm. The car was too hot to check the pre-load on the actuator so he is coming back. The boost would hit 18 psi at 3200 rpm and then go up to 23 psi around 5800 rpm and end up at 21-22 psi at 7,000 rpm. BTW, THIS IS ON THE STOCK EVO9 ACTUATOR. So the the clowns that think you need the HD actuator to hold any boost at redline, this is once again proof of the reason we sell and use the stock EVO9 actuator. The HD is for pump/alky or race gas use only.

Here is the dyno sheet on pump gas. You can see that the curve dips down and then climbs back up, that is the boost control issue I was explaining. You will notice in the next dyno graph that is gone with us adjusting the boost control on the race gas. So now for the really good stuff.

As strong as this car was before on C16 it really shined today with the turbo change.

With the new Green/LT turbo we made 410 whp and 400 ft lbs of torque. With the EVO9 actuator we would peak at 33 psi and hold 27.5 at 7,000 rpm.

Here is the dyno sheet of before on the stock turbo compared to after with the Green/LT turbo:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...DynoChart1.jpg



It is pretty amazing looking at that chart as there is very little difference in spool up compared to stock. Peak torque happens only 500-600 rpm later. The car is hitting 20 psi at 3400 rpm. We took the car out on the street to once again get data and so I could show this customer how full of it some other critics of this turbo are. On the street the AFR's and boost were the same along with the spool up and the amount of boost the car held at redline.

Hopefully Eric will chime in later when he gets time. The car was very strong. It is amazing how much harder this turbo pulls up top than the stock unit does.

BTW, gains from stock to this were, HP=36 and torque=28. "

 

Hey I take offense, actually I dont LOL.

Yes I have a ATP GT3076R, 272's, Custom 3" DP, Custom Intake, Forge unos MBC and RS BOV, Stock ECU/Custom Dynoflash, 720cc injectors, 3" exhaust, custom 2.5" LICP, stock FMIC.

And Al got my to 350whp and 302wtq at 10.8 AFR using 93 pump on Buschers MD last year. This with a slipping clutch and the MBC being teed off the BOV line causing my WG to act against the BOV causing flutter and power loss problems. Also the WG was opening at 14 PSI all the way to 20 PSI due to a bad light MBC spring (Just figured this out last week) Forge is sending me a new one.

Just did a AMS FMIC and next week I am going to Wayne's the owner of PPI and he is port/polishing my exhaust mani, ATP hotside and gasket matching to see if with all of this and a retune can get me. Maybe I am optimistic but 400whp/350wtq on the MD at 11.0 AFR??? On 93 oct. Only time will tell. The on race gas at 26 psi or so 460/400???

If I am not happy with this setup after then its gone and the FP green is going on my car. for sure I dont want a stroker or meth or race gas just pump 93 the same or more power then I have now at 1000rpms or so faster.

 

Is anyone running a revhard manifold?