Ebay intercooler testing from the Pros at Buschur Racing....the facts, the truth
now, seriously, what does that have to do with anything? If it was on OR off it doesnt matter.... the test were preformed the same exact way.... read through the post!
the numbers i used are just arbitrary. my point is that we all sacrifice a little performance and functionally to save money and invest it else where. is the computer you're using the fastest in the world? no, you couldn't afford it but you got a computer that meet your needs and paid a lot less. is the chair you're sitting in the most comfortable chair in the world. no, but you got a chair that suit your need for a lot less money. also, people who use Ebay parts are not out there trying to set world record or anything. the people who are trying to set world record have the money or the means to buy the best money can buy.
if my XSP IC makes 10 whp more than the stock by itself (with out the LICP), than i think it's money well spent. i could spend the other $450 i saved on cams. to each is there own.
if my XSP IC makes 10 whp more than the stock by itself (with out the LICP), than i think it's money well spent. i could spend the other $450 i saved on cams. to each is there own.
The reason I posted the numbers at the beginning of the pull and at the end of the pull is that they are important, one of us is confused maybe.
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
I know you Buschur know your stuff, and whether people like you or hate you, bottom line you are the man when it comes to making a 4g63 perform hands down, so I mean no harm as I say this, but the problem that people are trying to comprehend here including myself is that if an EBAY intercooler is rated at about 550 - 600hp(probably overated flywheel power) and is used on a application that puts out mid 600hp on a very low reading dyno how efficient can that be? I mean the intercooler manufacturer is telling you not to use it in anything over 550hp (which is sort of like a warning dont use me past this hp amount or expect the unexpected) where as the garrett core is capable of handling 1100hp. In this situation the garrett core is over efficient(which is great has lots of room for advancement) vs Ebay core which is pushed beyond its range of operation. The volume of hot air flowing thru an ebay core at 40+ psi is of course beyond anything it could handle and greater than anything a stock turbo can put out. Only thing I can see here, and I think this is a reason you recommend the race intercooler is because pretty much this test states Buscur race intercooler can handle anything you throw at it, vs the ebay core that has its limitations. It is a no brainer that your intercooler would outperform the ebay one, especially with a magnificent garrett core behind it no matter what hp or boost level the car is at. It is also to no surprise that the ebay intercooler would not preform well out of its range of efficiency. Unfortunately you probably dont have anything at around 400hp in your stable lol to actually test the ebay intercooler in its efficient range to see if the intercooler will still make outlet temps rise as high as they did on your car. I have no doubts about your products (intercooler included) and I know they perform(had a buschur head on my 1g back in the day), but I think that the people that are actually questioning here legitimatly in this post really just want to see how outlet temps are within range of the intercoolers suggested operation limits. Some asking the question mean no harm(me included) others just like to pick a fight with you. Just my view on the issue once again no harm intended.
The reason I posted the numbers at the beginning of the pull and at the end of the pull is that they are important, one of us is confused maybe.
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
Oh dam you posted this while i typed what i did lol
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 101
From: NR Reading PA
There was some talk of the new point system as a method to weed out and remove the argumentative individuals who use profane and abusive comments and are always attacking others
I have not seen any points being issued - or any effect of the new system - I hope at some point it results in some of these individuals getting booted
PEOPLE on this forum really need to learn to communicate their opinions in a more civil and less vulgar and profane manner.
to the guys who are making these rude remarks - there is no reason to insult someone and call names to make your point - in fact when you do so it lessons the value of what you are saying
Al
I have not seen any points being issued - or any effect of the new system - I hope at some point it results in some of these individuals getting booted
PEOPLE on this forum really need to learn to communicate their opinions in a more civil and less vulgar and profane manner.
to the guys who are making these rude remarks - there is no reason to insult someone and call names to make your point - in fact when you do so it lessons the value of what you are saying
Al
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts; your conclusion is wrong. You don't see the points, warnings, banning or infractions because you not do have access rights to that information. And FYI we have been removing posts from this thread all day and issuing POINTS and warnings. It would be better to post in the vendor forum if you want to discuss the system's effectiveness. Thanks.
Speedlimit..
Speedlimit...
Al, I am must clarify more on my post of removing Buschur parts. It is not that the parts dont work, it is a personal ban I have with the company form a past experiance. Also as the post stated, I agreed with the test he made. I only posted stating "that if it were me I would do it this way, but it wasnt."
And I dont mean to sound rude, but I dont care what the resale value of Buschur parts are, the last set I just trade out even. That is why I rock a true AMS FMIC, and I took the time in varifing that it was one of theirs and not a knock off. If you search my past threads, you will see where I questioned them about it throughly.
And I dont mean to sound rude, but I dont care what the resale value of Buschur parts are, the last set I just trade out even. That is why I rock a true AMS FMIC, and I took the time in varifing that it was one of theirs and not a knock off. If you search my past threads, you will see where I questioned them about it throughly.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,788
Likes: 1
The reason I posted the numbers at the beginning of the pull and at the end of the pull is that they are important, one of us is confused maybe.
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
So my question is how soon "after" the pull did you take this temp reading?
Don't you think what is most important is the measurement at full boost?
Were you using any datalogging? If so, can you post logs of both pulls?
The reason I posted the numbers at the beginning of the pull and at the end of the pull is that they are important, one of us is confused maybe.
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
I was showing the starting AIT's were the same on all the I/C's. I then posted what the temps rose to at the end of the 8,000 rpm pull I did.
I also posted temps of after the test, after a cool down.
******VERY IMPORTANT>>>
Here is something many of you are not seeing. Some of you are saying this, "Yeah well the Ebay is fine for 350 whp, I don't need a bigger one as I am only doing this or that."
I can tell you that the large MAJORITY of people THINK that when they start modifying their cars that they are going to do (For example) a catback, filter and boost controller. Then after a few weeks they think the car is slow again and then decide they should get a tune. Then a few weeks later it's slow again and they decide to finish it off and go Stage 1. Then a week later they get their *** handed to them by their friend in his Camaro. So then he's back on the phone to upgrade cams and fuel pump etc., etc., etc.
Speed is addictive. We pride ourselves on setting up our Staged upgrades in a manor you don't have to go back and replace half of the stuff as you make more and more power.
For those of you that think the Ebay is just fine at 350 whp and that's all the power you are ever going to want, buy it. It still isn't a good choice but do it if that's what you want.
For the rest of you that know the addiction to speed is like a drug addiction, you know that buying the right parts the first time is going to save you money and work down the road.
You can buy our race FMIC with our Stage 3 kit and it works beautifully on the stock turbo! You can then leave it and make 1,000 hp and run 8's on a GT42R becuase this is the same intercooler we are running on our black shop car!
I would like to add to your comments directed to those who are looking at a 350 whp level
most of you guys are looking at a stock turbo
the stock turbo is unit which pumps out massive HOT AIR at high boost levels
As you start to reach to the edges of the turbo's efficency (not hard to do) the heat rises significantly
This is a reason why a car with a stock turbo and 350 whp will in some cases benefit just as much as a car with a large amount of power from an efficient fmic
Of course - all of this testing I already did several years ago - those who are interested can go way back to when we first tested the now old BR delux fmic against some other popular designs on a BR stage IV car
Al
Al, I am must clarify more on my post of removing Buschur parts. It is not that the parts dont work, it is a personal ban I have with the company form a past experiance. Also as the post stated, I agreed with the test he made. I only posted stating "that if it were me I would do it this way, but it wasnt."
And I dont mean to sound rude, but I dont care what the resale value of Buschur parts are, the last set I just trade out even. That is why I rock a true AMS FMIC, and I took the time in varifing that it was one of theirs and not a knock off. If you search my past threads, you will see where I questioned them about it throughly.
And I dont mean to sound rude, but I dont care what the resale value of Buschur parts are, the last set I just trade out even. That is why I rock a true AMS FMIC, and I took the time in varifing that it was one of theirs and not a knock off. If you search my past threads, you will see where I questioned them about it throughly.
Dave I only see you listing for each test... ambient temp, before intake temp, and after intake temp.
So my question is how soon "after" the pull did you take this temp reading?
Don't you think what is most important is the measurement at full boost?
Were you using any datalogging? If so, can you post logs of both pulls?
So my question is how soon "after" the pull did you take this temp reading?
Don't you think what is most important is the measurement at full boost?
Were you using any datalogging? If so, can you post logs of both pulls?
He's likely pulling them off the AEM logs so the time should be instantly after 8000rpm.
A graph would be interesting to see though your likely to see no spikes in temperature readings just a high rate of climb. I suppose there is a graph Dave can post a picture of if he's so inclined.
Al,
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts; your conclusion is wrong. You don't see the points, warnings, banning or infractions because you not do have access rights to that information. And FYI we have been removing posts from this thread all day and issuing POINTS and warnings. It would be better to post in the vendor forum if you want to discuss the system's effectiveness. Thanks.
Speedlimit..
Speedlimit...
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts; your conclusion is wrong. You don't see the points, warnings, banning or infractions because you not do have access rights to that information. And FYI we have been removing posts from this thread all day and issuing POINTS and warnings. It would be better to post in the vendor forum if you want to discuss the system's effectiveness. Thanks.
Speedlimit..
Speedlimit...
Glad to hear the system is working
I hope that in time those who are using the insults and profane remarks will start to either get the message or they will be booted
This subject - the e bay product issue - is one which IMHO is a contoversial subject which seems to bring out a lot of passion on both sides of the debate.
IMHO - there is no right or wrong answer.
Like abortion, school prayer or flag burning - there will be people on both sides of the subject.
My main request to those posting on the subject is do not become angry with someone else who does not agree with your opinion.
Rather than insulting them and calling them names, try and make an effective argument why your position is the correct one.
Thanks
on all the haterz. on doing the test, Dave. Thank you. Sadly your continued testing and posting of those results has mainly only proven how many small minded and deluded people are surfing these forums. The comment(s) on credibility are thoroughly laughable. I guess a lot of ppl just can't handle unadulterated truth and would prefer a healthy dose of hypocrisy.
l8r)
I know you Buschur know your stuff, and whether people like you or hate you, bottom line you are the man when it comes to making a 4g63 perform hands down, so I mean no harm as I say this, but the problem that people are trying to comprehend here including myself is that if an EBAY intercooler is rated at about 550 - 600hp(probably overated flywheel power) and is used on a application that puts out mid 600hp on a very low reading dyno how efficient can that be? I mean the intercooler manufacturer is telling you not to use it in anything over 550hp (which is sort of like a warning dont use me past this hp amount or expect the unexpected) where as the garrett core is capable of handling 1100hp. In this situation the garrett core is over efficient(which is great has lots of room for advancement) vs Ebay core which is pushed beyond its range of operation. The volume of hot air flowing thru an ebay core at 40+ psi is of course beyond anything it could handle and greater than anything a stock turbo can put out. Only thing I can see here, and I think this is a reason you recommend the race intercooler is because pretty much this test states Buscur race intercooler can handle anything you throw at it, vs the ebay core that has its limitations. It is a no brainer that your intercooler would outperform the ebay one, especially with a magnificent garrett core behind it no matter what hp or boost level the car is at. It is also to no surprise that the ebay intercooler would not preform well out of its range of efficiency. Unfortunately you probably dont have anything at around 400hp in your stable lol to actually test the ebay intercooler in its efficient range to see if the intercooler will still make outlet temps rise as high as they did on your car. I have no doubts about your products (intercooler included) and I know they perform(had a buschur head on my 1g back in the day), but I think that the people that are actually questioning here legitimatly in this post really just want to see how outlet temps are within range of the intercoolers suggested operation limits. Some asking the question mean no harm(me included) others just like to pick a fight with you. Just my view on the issue once again no harm intended.
Back in the day when I was doing fmic tests against the Br fmic we had no ebay products to compare against
I agree that it would be interesting to see the results on more normal range powered cars
In my carrer as a tuner, I have always seen the Buschur, AMS and Perrin products make much more power than ebay parts
