I respect your decision and I wont hold it against you at all. I disagree of course but the world would be a very boring place to me if everyone always agreed on every point.

My main inquiry was why you felt the way you did about Buschur Products.

I would hope that one day you get a chance to meet all the guys at Buschur, you wont find a better group of people.

Al

 

i just read david's post on the ebay cooler losing heat much faster than his, i didn't read the other million posts to see if it's been said already though.

one of the reasons temperature dropped so quickly on the ebay unit is because the difference in temperature between the intercooler and outside air is so great where the cooling would be slowed down as you get closer to ambient temperatures.

heat transfer = mass flow rate * c * (Temp intercooler - temp ambient)

c would be a heat transfer coefficient which is standard based on the type of material transferring the heat. ie water is 1.00

 

How about testing your intercooler against a basic I,E,MBC,Flash car?

 

The temp readings I have listed are instant, I am using an AEM EMS on the car with datalogging. The temps are what I pulled out of the logs.

 

Good testing Dave....keep up the good work

 

240, still showing that stupidity in my threads, huh? Please go back a few pages and READ the information about our core on the race track during a Time Attack event and then come back with you comments, once again. Jesus, you never stop do you?

Spearco? I have their phone number and for your information THEY are the company that we USE to use and STOPPED using when the GARRETT cores kicked their asses. So, I won't be needing that contact information. You feel free to use them on that mean 240 you have/had.

Clown.

 

digger, you math and information/formula is above my head I appreciate it though and it sounds like you know what you are talking about. Pass that along to 240Z, he is really clueless and could use someone like you to educate him! haha

The formula I know nothing about, fin design I have a good grasp on and it is very obvious the difference in the cores. I can see the ebay loosing some initial heat faster from being less dense too.

Anyway, the formula is very interesting.

 

Is anyone with half a brain really surprised at these results? The BR Race is larger, heavier, and has greater fin density so obviously it will cool better than the ebay core. But that's not why people buy the ebay core. They buy it for a cheap upgrade over the stocker. (BTW, I do not own a BR or ebay fmic).

Dave, any chance we can see dyno sheets, data logs, pictures etc?

 

Predictable Busher, instead of attacking issues you attack people. You were presented with a technical justification for why your assumptions were incorrect and you respond by calling me stupid. As far as me giving up, I stated that I thought the Garrett core was better, but your technical justifications and assumptions are off the mark. Teaching you has taken longer than expected, but I am still willing to try.

 

Thanks Dave. So that means you recorded the temps the moment you lifted throttle from each pull? That is what I was not understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm still amazed that the intercooler can work so well that 40 psi of boost only ends up adding 7 degrees F of heat! It just is amazing and I guess I have a thing or two to learn about intercoolers because I did not know they could work so well.

 

I am gonna post my questions one more time.

They are not as interesting as 90% of this thread, but I still would appreciate some answers

• Dosn't huge intercoolers kill turbo response when hitting the trottle and changing gears - I am sure that the race units produce good numbers on the dyno, but what about drivability?
• Aren't "regular" units offered by reputable companies (all around 30-50% larger than stock already) should be large/good enough for the stock turbo.
• Why do most of the intercoolers just large enough to not fit with the undertray - is it impossible to improve on the stock intercooler design without having to cut the undertray?

 

Good test, But isn't the race FMIC almost double the size of the ebay special? Running 40+++ PSI though a real AMS street core I would think would heat soak let alone the ebay special.

Any chance you could test it on a stock turbo at 23PSI?

 

1) The big intercooler will effect response time on the basis that it has more volume of air to flow before it pressurizes the system. The change in response would be minimal in the worst case scenario likely unoticed by anyone using the system.

2) Whats "Good Enough" is subject to serious debate since everyone seems bent on proving something. Buschur makes a very valid point in that if you go overkill on the intercooler you wouldn't have to worry about changing parts to suit higher horsepower levels later. You can decide whats big enough for your own purposes.

3) Increasing the size of the intercooler slows down the airflow across the fins, this improves the ability of the intercooler to reduce the charge temps. Cutting the undertray improves the intercooler design by making it taller slowing down airflow across the fins that much more.

Its not impossible to improve on the stock intercooler design with the stock like dimensions. Simply a better fin configuration would yield better cooling results like switching to a garrett bar and plate core design. There are intercoolers out there which have the stock dimensions. I don't claim expert status on intercoolers so this is far as I dare to go.

 

Buschur and AMS both say the Ebay IC's are average at best and still the Ebay lovers unite. Ya'll should start the EPLWU....(Ebay Part Lover Workers Union)

 

Another busher fan boy. Please show me where I said I was smarter. Yawn. I run the same Garrett core on my IX so give me a break. I have used this same core on several high powered cars that have run in the 8's and 10's. If you would take a minute to read my argument perhaps you would be able to make better choices in life and not be confused by less than savy marketing.

It is not that the Garrett core isn't better than the e-bay core for that particular 700hp application, it is that he states his assumptions as facts and truths when they are not. For 90% of the folks on this forum testing the core on a car that makes 650hp at the wheels and boosting 40psi is not relevant to the actual performance obtained at 23psi while driving down the road on a mildly modded motor.

I tell you what, if you are attempting to make 650hp at the wheels then I will 100% support the busher intercooler setup that he tested and agree that it is better for that application. However for the other 90% the e-bay core may be worth your money, but we don't really know because there is no relevant data to allow us to make that conclusion.