Very nice writeup

 

Don't you already have this data? you've been posting all over that it's great for applications less than 500hp.

 

I obviously do a alot of dyno testing/tuning here on all sorts of packages. I have always monitor air intake temps as you need to set up correction factors for it in the tune. (Mine is not using it on these tests as I stated).

I can tell you right now who has the best FMIC's I have seen and they are all very large FMIC's.

Our Race FMIC
AMS Race FMIC (not sure what they call it but it's large like our race)
Nisei's

I have not seen any others that really controlled AIT's extremely well. I cannot really tell a difference if it is ours VS AMS's big unit without getting out and looking at the cores.

Testing out other two cores or AMS's standard core (the one that was copied) are going to make for higher AIT's. I know that, if they didn't I would have never developed our Race FMIC.

I am seriously considering offering only our race FMIC from now on. I am rolling it over and over in my mind since I made this post. It is the best and it is what we push. I'd rather have our customers have the best one but some choose to run the smaller units we also offer. The Race is more expensive as the core is VERY expensive compared to what we buy the other smaller ones for. It's hard to see customer make a choice to buy the smaller FMIC's when you want him to buy the Race.

I have no desire to test a stock FMIC against the Ebay, you are right, I have absolutely NOTHING to gain from doing that and as much as I enjoy this testing and messing with cares I do test parts to either improve what we are doing or to help prove why someone should spend their money on our parts vs. something else.

If I get a car and it is convenient for me, I would test our standard/deluxe core against the Ebay.

I can tell you what is going to happen though. Same thing just not as drastically. The Ebay core is going to have less pressure drop with higher AIT's than ours. Our core is as large but has much better cooling because of it's fin design. It will not be as drastic as our Race but I'd bet still 30 degrees more with the Ebay over our standard/deluxe cores.

 

Let me just start by saying I actually Dont like the way that DB, WarrTalon, or DynoFlash All talk to people on this Forums, I think they have **** poor Communication skills. However..... (and i say this sparingly) With So many Idiots,Punks and Ricers on this forums can't really blame them.

The majority of the Evo owners out there where asking for a comparision between to two, thats why. To see how the Ebay FMIC really stakes up, now that the testing has actually been done you guys are going to disagree and huff and pout that the testing not fair? Your grounded until you start making sense


............BUT!!!!

With This said, and Actually reading through the ENTIRE thread Up until this point. the man is nothing but realistic, He's been trying to knock sense into the average consumer. Always raising the bar for the best, to be the best.... you gotta give him his respect. Weather you need the best of the best. Is up to you. But With that Facts are facts, and It is what it is.... The BR Race Is Supiour to the EBAY FMIC, and thats the fact. Regardless of size price, or any other limiting factors.


I could say 1000 other things, but Id rather just leave it plain and simple. Thanks again Dave For taking some heat to prove them all wrong once again.


Anthony

 

Dave, when i bought my Deluxe, the Race was still being debuged. this is y i went with the Deluxe. i think u know my setup, what do u think i would gain, by switching to your race from your Deluxe with the 90 degree bend LICP?

btw, thanks and i apreciate your testing. say what u want guys, he is doing it for us, no one else, and on top of it all, he is doing it for free.

 

I swear... folks just need to sack up and come to grips with the fact that parts just ain't parts. Some are clearly CLEARLY better than some others but if you like you still have the right to put whatever you want on your car.

Just DO NOT sit around and argue that a POS will work just as well as a well designed and built part. Now get over yourselves and pi$$off and enjoy your eBay parts.

 

You know one thing I don't see mentioned here is due to the extreme temperture ratios of the ebay intercoolers wouldn't the heat cycling have negative effects on the welds and eventually lead to premature failure and cracking?

Curious side note, I've noticed that people here will say not to buy ebay headers becuase they fail at what they do. Yet people will buy the ebay intercoolers expecting different results, curious..

 

Wow. 12 pages in a day and most of it bs.

Anywho, Dave thanks for the test! Remember our discussion about it over pm a couple months ago? Some of us actually appreciate them. FWIW, I just installed the Race and I'm looking over some logs as I type this and notice the differences this intercooler has made.

 

How about the front mount from APS? How does that stack up to the rest?

 

For anyone that wants to talk about real data rather than bickering about whether Dave is a good guy or not... check this thread here with my data about AMS intercooler:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=260689

 

I have to ask, "What the hell is wrong with some of you?"

There are multiple threads of people wanting this type of comparrision. There are multiple threads of people saying not to buy the buschur/ams because the ebay works just as well and is cheaper.

So Dave Buschur says, ok lets find out. He does the tests that people whined and complained for, he tested it against the ebay fmic that everyone said was just as good as his FMIC... And still the crying continues.

Here is reality.

Buschur and AMS FMIC's control temps much much better than the ebay units. END OF STORY, you can argue all you want but it just makes you looks stupid. 60 degrees is 60 degrees.

The ebay unit is cheaper... for reason.

The ebay unit is better than the stock fmic, and probably works just fine for cars with basic bolt-ons that never see track duty.

If you plan to race regularly, GET AMS OR BUSCHUR NOT THE KNOCK OFF. The ebay fmic heats up more, and dissipates slower.

The whole purpose of a fmic is to cool the intake charge, the ebay knock off does this better than stock... but is terrible compared to ams/buschur.

The reality is some people are trying to justify their decision to buy a cheap knock off part, because they want to feel superior to the "suckers" who spent more. The test shows who the "suckers" really are, and they are crying because they were proven wrong about which performs better.

Even I can see this, and I'm still running on a stock FMIC and have no desire to change it.

 

I concur with you

from what i gather most of the larger US racing companies which sell fmic's use garret air to air fmic cores which are the best available

The core itself costs many times more than the e bay total product

I have the Buschur unit and it really is amazing the way it controls the intake air temps - which will rise no more than a few degrees on a full 1 - 4 150 mph pass on a hot summer day

you do get what you pay for

 

I got a question - isnt it true that huge intercoolers kill turbo response when hitting the trottle and changing gears - I am sure that the race units produce good numbers on the dyno, but what about drivability?

I would hope that "regular" units offered by reputable companies (all around 30-50% larger than stock already) should be large/good enough for the stock turbo.

One final question: Why do most of the intercoolers just large enough to not fit with the undertray - is it impossible to improve on the stock intercooler design without having to cut the undertray?

 

Now I'm all wanting to test the Ebay vs Buschur on my own car, thanks a lot guys mission accomplished haha =p


My car is too much of a budget build to have fancy 700 dollar parts on it though =p

 

I was outta line, didnt mean for my sense of humor to take over.

I send you both my regards.


Anthony