I am sure he will have it posted when it's done, And no I don't think everyone is a idiot, just the ones that think they can get a turbo and everything needed for 2500 and get 500HP. Not only are they idiots buy they are going to be idiots with a blown up car. As far as Shiv I have no clue, like I said in the last post CALL THEM this is what they told me on the phone and what HAS BEEN POSTED here. I don't work for him and could give a **** less what costs what as long as it work good.

 

Hell if it's not Gold plated there is no way in HELL I am going to get it. Gota have the bling bling right. Look good and loud and go slow right

 

You could even get those wheels that keep spinning when you stop, but get them to look like a compressor wheel.

How pimp would that be?

Wait, that would be gay.

 

My post was never aimed at Buschur racing. While I have in many ways had different thoughts then BR(550's are too small, I prefer TDO6 20G's) I have often also had the same thoughts as him. He is a knowledgeable tuner with a well earned reputation.

I was talking to Ryanmcd2.

As for a tubular mani on a daily driver, nothing wrong with that, if its constructed to withstand the stress's it has to handle, and they most definitely CAN be buit to handle that.

Sean

 

Go ahead then.

Oh, did you notice that the Evo has a huge hood opening that could let water leak in? It won't hurt a manifold NEAR as quickly as a header.

Header + daily driver = bad idea.

 

There are plenty of cars that come with tubular manifolds from the factory. The water leakage is a pertinent point but by no means, means its not feasible. The main issue is that you hafta find one that won't crack. like I said, it has to be well built and preferably jet coated, or something of the sort.

 

Actually I dont think there is any turbocharged vehicle ever made that came with tubular exhaust manifolds. Its just not durable enough to withstand everyday heating up and cooling. This temperature change (expansion and contraction) is what causes cracks, not to mention how much more suseptible this becomes if water hits it thru the vent while its red hot . But as always there will be one that is more durable than the next, eventually they will all develop tiny stress cracks, not that this matters to most.

 

BZZZZZZT! Wrong! The B5 chassis Audi S4 has tubular headers from the factory. Although they are not a collector style tubular header, they are tubular, albeit a log style.

 

Whoptie friggin do.

That is damn impressive to me. He comes on here and says that he THINKS that there was never a vehicle built with a stock tubular header....Then he goes on to give valid points..........and you chime in with your "WRONG! There was one car in history, and you don't know about it so that makes you a loser!" style of coments.

 

You know, kid, if this response was coming from superz I would actually have a little more respect for it...

Geez I guess I'll just have to go **** off for the rest of my life because I pissed Josh off with a comment that ran contrary to what he posted earlier in the thread!

HA! NOT! Lighten up dude!

Look, my point was not to discount or discredit his advice/opinion or yours for that matter. My point is there are PLENTY of cars (daily drivers) that have come equipped from the factory with tubular headers, turbocharged or otherwise. For example, the entire series of Porsche 911s which were equipped with tubular headers, or the Porsche 951 series... I'm sure if I 'googled' for about 10 minutes I could come up with a few more that I am not directly familiar with.

My point: A properly designed tubular header will not cause issues. Will it last as long as a cast iron header? No, in 99% of the cases it will not. (although they last a really friggin long time bolted to the underside of a 911 exposed to water and road salt) Given the construction techniques used to achieve longevity in a tubular header, in 99% of the cases a cast iron manifold will cost less too.

 

You responded with "BZZZZ Wrong!" to a guy and yet you call me a kid?


Look at the track record for the daily driven 4G63 equipped out there. Tubular headders will make a little more power, but they don't work well for daily drivers on our cars. If they did, you can bet that David Buschur would be selling them in this kit.

 

I should probably take this private since there is no point in burdening the rest of the community with this crap but what the hell.

I guess you weren't much of a fan of the Family Feud, eh? Regardless, based on your response to my first post, yes, I'd say it was juvenile.

Regarding a tubular header application on the 4G63, I never argued that it was the best solution or even a good one. The point raised by you and others was that tubular headers are not suitable for daily driven cars. That's a misinformed statement in my opinion. My point, and I'll state it again simply for those with poor reading comprehension: There are cars that are intended as daily drivers that come factory equipped with tubular headers. Not just one example, but many.

Like I said, lighten up. My post wasn't a personal attack. You've reduced it to that level. Do you frequently suffer from personal attacks on message boards? You seem pretty sensitive. You've read an awful lot into my original message that just simply wasn't there.

 

The reason tubular headers are not often used on factory cars is gain vs. cost. they are, for obvious reasons, significantly more expensive to mass produce. Even so, some cars use them, but not many foir the same reasons they dont get a mandrel bent exhaust. Cost vs. gains.

Never theless, they most definitely can be made to withstand what they need to. To deny the truth is to be a fool. Aceppt it can be done and move on with your life. You were wrong.

Before you chime in and say its not worth it, go back, read my posts, and realize I never said it was. I MERELY said it is perfectly feasible for a daily if constructed well.

 

Come one guys! haha lighten up, it is starting to look like DSM board. haha

One car that I know of (since I own one and my dad has three) that came with tubular manifolds is the Buick Grand National. The stock tubular manifolds will last, if you are lucky, for maybe 10,000 miles. Just some input on that.

As for the DSM's. We have tried COUNTLESS tubular exhaust manifolds (headers) over the years. They made good power but the reliability SUCKS. Now if I had just welded them up and they broke that would be one thing. I have had two different certified welders do them, a company in Michigan and even Archer Racing. Archer had Borla (YES, the big *** company Borla) build them for them. They had a lifetime warranty on them. Within a year or two of them being built they stopped making/selling them, the warranties were killing them.

We will not be using a header in our kits. The reliability will suffer and it is not worth the very small increase in power.


To give you an example on the power and such. We did some flow bench testing of exhaust manifolds bolted to a 4g63 cylinder head on the flow bench. We wanted to see what the increase/decrease would be with each part bolted to the head. I did this when I was designing the header for our 4g63 tube chassis Talon that has gone 7.81 at 175 mph.

The worst flowing manifold we tested was a T3 manifold from Turbonetics. Next in line for worst was the HKS T4 manifold. The best flowing manifold we tested was a ported 2nd generation DSM manifold. After I finished building the header we put it on the same head and tested it. The numbers were INCREDIBLE. The problem is this header would never work in any production vehicle, especially FWD style. Installing this header on the head on the flow bench made the exhaust flow so much better it was like adding just over .250 to the lift of the cam!!

Back to the manifolds. We have that '89 Conquest we race in Street Class. On a 10" tire this car has gone 8.7 at 151 mph. We are running a ported 2nd generation manifold on the car. The car is also using one of the internally gated turbos we are going to offer for the EVO8. This stuff delivers on performance, and I'm not joking!

As for the prices, again.

The TURBO kit which will include the manifold, turbo, lines, bolts, gaskets and a tubular 02 housing is going to be $2500 or LESS.

You will still need everything else from us to support the kit, our Stage 4 kit right now can be bought for $4,000. This will put an EVO into the 11's and give it 380 whp and 349 ft lbs of torque. This will be enough to support the majority of the turbo upgrades that most people will be interested in. This will give you the opportunity to make upwards of 500 whp. The TOTAL price for this will be $6500 with your doing the install.

Hope this helps clear up some things and give some insight to it all.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com