3582HTA vs 6265 Dyno Comparo
Aug 7, 2008, 04:02 PM
#91
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When you do the back to back test I am sure that you will have at least 5 to 10 orders for the winner turbo kit.
Which kit are you suggest to your customers?
AMS 850R or AMS HTA35R ????
Which kit are you suggest to your customers?
AMS 850R or AMS HTA35R ????
Aug 7, 2008, 04:32 PM
#94
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Sorry but I dont undestand the meaning of your post...
I just give some feed back of what I have done .. take it for what it is just a test
Right now is pocible for me post the dyno diff between this 2 housings same day you can see the date on the dynosheet this are the only pics that I got since my old computer died its the only info I have got left( just recover this 1 day ago)
some pics
This dyno was with the Standar t04s housing at 1 bar
Dyno with the ported precision housing
The dyno its scaled different but you got the idea...
I will try to get this dynos from the dynoshop again re-scaled to see more cleary the diffs
Hope this people still keep them
My apologies to the owner of this post for the off topic.
Thanks.
Aug 7, 2008, 04:39 PM
#95
we are actually talking about the difference between the two different ported shrouds. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like you tested a non ported shroud to the drilled style ported shroud.
We are actually talking about comparing the drilled style ported shroud to the slotted style Garrett ported shroud.
We are actually talking about comparing the drilled style ported shroud to the slotted style Garrett ported shroud.
Aug 7, 2008, 06:41 PM
#98
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I need to figure out how to quote someone and not clip off their name 
From a manufacturing perspective, it is much faster and simpler to drill a circle of holes and mill the grove in the cover than it is to remove all that material and do a full on surge port. If I were to make a educated guess, I would say that you could process 5 bullet hole covers in the time it takes to process 1 TiAl style cover. Economics is often a motivator for manufacturing processes.
From a manufacturing perspective, it is much faster and simpler to drill a circle of holes and mill the grove in the cover than it is to remove all that material and do a full on surge port. If I were to make a educated guess, I would say that you could process 5 bullet hole covers in the time it takes to process 1 TiAl style cover. Economics is often a motivator for manufacturing processes.
Since HKS has some jazzy looking turbos with fanzy holes I figured it must be true
Time and time again I came to dread the swiss cheese holes and the medicore results that come along with those covers
At the end of the day the results speak volumes for which approach works
Aug 8, 2008, 09:54 AM
#100
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An important thing to keep in mind with both of these turbos is price point. AMS brought this up to us over and over. Our turbo is expensive, and our wholesale margins are usually described as "crappy" by most shops. Lots of shops would be much more inclined to use and sell our turbocharger if it were something they could profit from, make money on.
If you can make 15%-20% more profit selling one item over another, it doesnt take long for you to pick a champion to promote. Don't kid yourself into thinking that money doesn't factor into product reviews. Our product is expensive and we are unable to give shops huge discounts on these turbos, on top of that Garrett has somewhat limited availability on 35R chra. This produces unhappy distributors that need something to sell and make money on, que the PTE turbos, enter stage left.
At the same time there are a few guys out there that just want the best. Buschur for example will run whatever works best on his cars, regardless. This is a double edged sword for me working with him since it also means that whenever something else works better than my product, that is what ends up on his cars, period end of story. At the same time, it also tells me that none of the PTE turbos he has ever run work any better than our HTA.
If you can make 15%-20% more profit selling one item over another, it doesnt take long for you to pick a champion to promote. Don't kid yourself into thinking that money doesn't factor into product reviews. Our product is expensive and we are unable to give shops huge discounts on these turbos, on top of that Garrett has somewhat limited availability on 35R chra. This produces unhappy distributors that need something to sell and make money on, que the PTE turbos, enter stage left.
At the same time there are a few guys out there that just want the best. Buschur for example will run whatever works best on his cars, regardless. This is a double edged sword for me working with him since it also means that whenever something else works better than my product, that is what ends up on his cars, period end of story. At the same time, it also tells me that none of the PTE turbos he has ever run work any better than our HTA.
Last edited by ForcedPerformance; Aug 8, 2008 at 10:21 AM. Reason: correct my poor grammer
Aug 8, 2008, 10:56 AM
#103
Buschur for example will run whatever works best on his cars, regardless. This is a double edged sword for me working with him since it also means that whenever something else works better than my product, that is what ends up on his cars, period end of story. At the same time, it also tells me that none of the PTE turbos he has ever run work any better than our HTA.
Aug 10, 2008, 08:31 PM
#104
There can be very subtle differences in machining on the housing that can make for very significant differences in power. Precision use to have issues with holding tolerances on the diffuser of the compressor housings. A friend of mine was running a PT71 where simply swapping compressor housings around he managed to pick up 80 WHP.
I'm not talking different styles of housings either. I'm talking exact same housing style, just switching out one cover for another and pickup up 80 WHP on a 700 HP car. When inspected, you could visually tell the diffuser area was different on the two housings and it was the older housing that he had on his car for 2 years that made the higher power.
Just something to think about while comparing housings.
I'm not talking different styles of housings either. I'm talking exact same housing style, just switching out one cover for another and pickup up 80 WHP on a 700 HP car. When inspected, you could visually tell the diffuser area was different on the two housings and it was the older housing that he had on his car for 2 years that made the higher power.
Just something to think about while comparing housings.
Aug 10, 2008, 11:25 PM
#105
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An important thing to keep in mind with both of these turbos is price point. AMS brought this up to us over and over. Our turbo is expensive, and our wholesale margins are usually described as "crappy" by most shops. Lots of shops would be much more inclined to use and sell our turbocharger if it were something they could profit from, make money on.
If you can make 15%-20% more profit selling one item over another, it doesnt take long for you to pick a champion to promote. Don't kid yourself into thinking that money doesn't factor into product reviews. Our product is expensive and we are unable to give shops huge discounts on these turbos, on top of that Garrett has somewhat limited availability on 35R chra. This produces unhappy distributors that need something to sell and make money on, que the PTE turbos, enter stage left.
At the same time there are a few guys out there that just want the best. Buschur for example will run whatever works best on his cars, regardless. This is a double edged sword for me working with him since it also means that whenever something else works better than my product, that is what ends up on his cars, period end of story. At the same time, it also tells me that none of the PTE turbos he has ever run work any better than our HTA.
If you can make 15%-20% more profit selling one item over another, it doesnt take long for you to pick a champion to promote. Don't kid yourself into thinking that money doesn't factor into product reviews. Our product is expensive and we are unable to give shops huge discounts on these turbos, on top of that Garrett has somewhat limited availability on 35R chra. This produces unhappy distributors that need something to sell and make money on, que the PTE turbos, enter stage left.
At the same time there are a few guys out there that just want the best. Buschur for example will run whatever works best on his cars, regardless. This is a double edged sword for me working with him since it also means that whenever something else works better than my product, that is what ends up on his cars, period end of story. At the same time, it also tells me that none of the PTE turbos he has ever run work any better than our HTA.
There are two aspects to price point
Retail price
Profit margin
While you are very correct that there is little margin or profitability built into the FP line of turbos, I would doubt that any serious performance house if is going to push a cheaper turbo just to make a few more $. In most cases the sale of the turbo upgrade or turbo is just part of a whole turbo kit, injectors, install and tuning. Simply put, I dont think that any serious facility would recomend a sub par product to try and gain a bit more profit.
For example I only sell Buschur Racing parts which have the lowest dealer margins of any speed parts - period. I would rather know that my customer is getting the best American made parts that can be bought and dont mind it if they are slightly less profitable for me.
I dont agree with you that some of my fellow tuners would shy away from your product becuase they make less selling it. At least I like to think that way about my peers. We are an industry which focuses on results and data. I cant see any serious shop pushing sub par products.
I guess one simple soultion is to try and build more profit into your dealer's margins.
While we only make 10% selling your FP HTA upgrade, I would still recomend it to my customer as when the car is done I know they will be happy with the results.
The RETAIL PRICE issue is a more significant issue for the customers, especially in a weak economic climate. If the customer thinks they can make the same power with a turbo which costs several hundred dollars less then that may be motivated to save some money and go with a lower priced unit.
The PT 62/62 is a lower priced turbo and the customer will save some money if they go that direction.
I am not sure if the dealer makes more money on that unit as most sales of PT turbos occur below retail price. While FP units are all at retail as there is no margin left to discount it.
I do agree that the FP HTA units are certainly the best turbos available at this time and the results prove that they are the best you can buy - period.
I would only run FP HTA units on my own cars.
Al
Last edited by DynoFlash; Aug 10, 2008 at 11:29 PM.