Evolved Member
sorry to hear about your car man.
I'm sure it will be ok though, hopefully have the car back up in no time. It's real cool how honest ya are about everything.
I have no experience tuning (thats why I go to Buschur Racing).
BUT It just seems kinda crazy to me that the Haltech doesnt have knock control? maybe they're afraid of false knock pulling timing/adding fuel or something???
I'm sure it's not absolutely necessary, but it seems like it would be one of the more important bells and whistles for an EMS to have
I'm sure it will be ok though, hopefully have the car back up in no time. It's real cool how honest ya are about everything.
I have no experience tuning (thats why I go to Buschur Racing).
BUT It just seems kinda crazy to me that the Haltech doesnt have knock control? maybe they're afraid of false knock pulling timing/adding fuel or something???
I'm sure it's not absolutely necessary, but it seems like it would be one of the more important bells and whistles for an EMS to have
Evolved Member
Quote:
Was the timing 10 degrees to high across the entire map, or just in one part?
If it was across the entire map, what do you think made it run well in the other areas of the map before it blew? If it was just in one area, was it the same as your AEM map, or did it get corrupted somehow in the move?
What makes the Haltech not read the maps you copied from the AEM exactly the same?
Maybe you can save somebody else who is thinking about migrating to the Haltech from the same outcome...
Originally Posted by CO_VR4
Bummer. Sorry to hear that.Was the timing 10 degrees to high across the entire map, or just in one part?
If it was across the entire map, what do you think made it run well in the other areas of the map before it blew? If it was just in one area, was it the same as your AEM map, or did it get corrupted somehow in the move?
What makes the Haltech not read the maps you copied from the AEM exactly the same?
Maybe you can save somebody else who is thinking about migrating to the Haltech from the same outcome...
Dave, I would like to hear your comments on this also.
Crisspeed what do you use to monitor for knock when tuning Haltech's?
Evolving Member
That "+10" degrees of timing was probably why the engine was reving so quickly!!
Evolving Member
Quote:
Al
If that were actually the case it would happen more often. I think people are on the right track, the way it is syncing the crank & cam positions are suspect.Originally Posted by DynoFlash
My pet theory is that the cpu processor can not keep up with all the tasks needed in those extreme applications and it literally crashes and the car blows up.Al
That would manifest itself in a different way also, you'd probably get late events (i.e. late firing injectors, late firing ignition, etc). It wouldn't just fire the wrong cylinder...
Newbie
Damn... I was really hoping to be at 42 this year when you went 8's..... You deserve to have a following there cheerin ya on.... You know what I mean... Like them "LOUD ***" rotory guys do when they rampage D42...
I bet there was a part of you that was wishing you never switched ECU's.... But I'm sure in the end, you'll be happier...(hopefully)
------To turbotrix------,{ Any standalone is only as good as the person on the keyboard }
Was that an intentional low blow to Dave? Thats pretty rude.
I bet there was a part of you that was wishing you never switched ECU's.... But I'm sure in the end, you'll be happier...(hopefully)
------To turbotrix------,{ Any standalone is only as good as the person on the keyboard }
Was that an intentional low blow to Dave? Thats pretty rude.
Former Sponsor
Quote:
You really want to ruin yet another good thread with your BS Al? You just can never keep your mouth shut. Jason did NOT touch the tune on the Orange car. He was out here putting a Pro-EFI on Brandons car. The Orange car has been on the same tune/motor all year. I will not ruin Dave's thread so I am done responding to you. I just wanted to clear that up.Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Is that why you guys have the great Mr. Jason Siebles there tuning your Evo ?
Keith
Damn guys, thanks for all the volunteers and kind words. I sure do appreciate it.
Like I said, I'm not giving up by any means. Hell I wasn't even mad that it happened, this was flat out a case of me making a mistake, I'm just glad the first car I've ever done it to was my own and not a customers.
The biggest problem here at the shop is simply getting the time and room to work on MY stuff. I don't pull the engines or transmissions, that's for Dan and Steve. Getting an open bay is nearly impossible. Last time we Trent pulled the head off in the dyno bay in the back, no lift. We fixed it, put it back on and got lucky nothing was wrong with the rings/pistons.
This time I am worried about just "putting it back together" and then finding my luck didn't hold out twice. The rings are nearly always hurt when this happens.
Just so nobody keeps asking, I am not answering the questions asked about Haltech vs. AEM maps. Too many know-it-alls out there that I have no interest in helping, it's a sad hard truth of things. I said it was a mistake on my part that's good enough.
As for knock control, I've seen it save a lot of engines and in this case I'd guess it would have saved mine. I've seen it not have any effect at all too, like a few weeks ago when the cams sensor went and it torched the head, the knock sensor didn't do anything at all. While a knock sensor is definetely a welcome part along with knock control it really isn't needed. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to have it, but it's not needed. It's not like I tune a car and put it on the limits of the knock and then let the knock sensor take care of my laziness, it's simple there in case something goes wrong. In this case, had it been there or atleast a way for me to monitor it, I'd have probably caught the mistake when I was tuning the car at 30 psi and it would have never happened. Oh well, live and learn. Too many things were new to me with the Haltech, just figuring out how to log it was a chore and then when I did it is the easiest logging system I've ever seen. I should have been paying more attention to more parameters than I was, I should have double checked the map I built, I should have...............
Shoulda, coulda, woulda's are what built this place. We'll fix it, we'll start again and when we do it will be better, stronger and faster. It's just a pain in the ***, just like it is for all of you. I post what happens because nobody is perfect, I see no reason to lie about it all and cover it up like so many do. If racing was cheap, easy and nothing ever broke there would be a race car in every driveway.
Like I said, I'm not giving up by any means. Hell I wasn't even mad that it happened, this was flat out a case of me making a mistake, I'm just glad the first car I've ever done it to was my own and not a customers.
The biggest problem here at the shop is simply getting the time and room to work on MY stuff. I don't pull the engines or transmissions, that's for Dan and Steve. Getting an open bay is nearly impossible. Last time we Trent pulled the head off in the dyno bay in the back, no lift. We fixed it, put it back on and got lucky nothing was wrong with the rings/pistons.
This time I am worried about just "putting it back together" and then finding my luck didn't hold out twice. The rings are nearly always hurt when this happens.
Just so nobody keeps asking, I am not answering the questions asked about Haltech vs. AEM maps. Too many know-it-alls out there that I have no interest in helping, it's a sad hard truth of things. I said it was a mistake on my part that's good enough.
As for knock control, I've seen it save a lot of engines and in this case I'd guess it would have saved mine. I've seen it not have any effect at all too, like a few weeks ago when the cams sensor went and it torched the head, the knock sensor didn't do anything at all. While a knock sensor is definetely a welcome part along with knock control it really isn't needed. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to have it, but it's not needed. It's not like I tune a car and put it on the limits of the knock and then let the knock sensor take care of my laziness, it's simple there in case something goes wrong. In this case, had it been there or atleast a way for me to monitor it, I'd have probably caught the mistake when I was tuning the car at 30 psi and it would have never happened. Oh well, live and learn. Too many things were new to me with the Haltech, just figuring out how to log it was a chore and then when I did it is the easiest logging system I've ever seen. I should have been paying more attention to more parameters than I was, I should have double checked the map I built, I should have...............
Shoulda, coulda, woulda's are what built this place. We'll fix it, we'll start again and when we do it will be better, stronger and faster. It's just a pain in the ***, just like it is for all of you. I post what happens because nobody is perfect, I see no reason to lie about it all and cover it up like so many do. If racing was cheap, easy and nothing ever broke there would be a race car in every driveway.
Actually TTR, you've already ruined it by coming into it. I thought we had an agreement to stay out of each others threads? I didn't like your comment about who's at the keyboard either. Now go away.
Evolved Member
Quote:
Sounds like it would be good mission statement. Originally Posted by davidbuschur
...If racing was cheap, easy and nothing ever broke there would be a race car in every driveway.
Sorry to hear about your car. Best of luck with the rebuild, and then it's time to start working on that whole cheap, easy, reliable thing.
l8r)
Former Sponsor
Quote:
They're racing down south all winter long. Lets do a road trip. I'm down. Originally Posted by davidbuschur
With less than 4 weeks of racing left in Ohio it's very doubtful this car is going to see 8's this year and that is the biggest disapointment off all.
Former Sponsor
Quote:
That comment was not directed at you but I guess for some reason you feel it was. Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Actually TTR, you've already ruined it by coming into it. I thought we had an agreement to stay out of each others threads? I didn't like your comment about who's at the keyboard either. Now go away.
Its not like I was the only person that made that exact same comment. FYI, Lance from Toyomoto had a cam sensor go bad on a Haltec equipped Evo VIII. They go bad no matter what computer you are using.Keith
Account Disabled
Quote:
I felt the same way you did. The comment about who is behind the keyboard was very insulting. Especially since you are perhaps the best tuner of Evos in the USA. Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Actually TTR, you've already ruined it by coming into it. I thought we had an agreement to stay out of each others threads? I didn't like your comment about who's at the keyboard either. Now go away.
Al
Evolving Member
Has the Buschur team ever taken a trip down south for racing? Seems like there's a lot of open arms in Florida waiting for some winter 8's for the bish.
Account Disabled
To TTR- Get the **** out of the thread.
To David- Go to Florida, we want 8's this year.
To David- Go to Florida, we want 8's this year.
Evolving Member
Quote:
There appears to be a problem with my laptop and the Haltech, the laptop using Vista all of a sudden is shutting down and losing connection with the Haltech. So I grabbed my old laptop with XP in it and it worked absolutely flawlessly all day today.
I spent about 3 hours on the dyno today. It took me a substantial amount of time to get the low end dialed in but it is stellar now. The car drives perfectly smooth, the studdering the car has always had in it at 2500rpm'ish is complete gone. It has never rev'd this fast, as a matter of fact I have never seen any 4g63 rev this fast.
Now, here is some honesty, cause it's how I roll. When I set up the Haltech I took the fuel and timing maps and copied them from the AEM to the Haltech, figured it would get me close. The fuel was nearly dead on and without knock monitoring or knock control I assumed the timing was too. Yes, some of you are already reading into what is coming.
I slowly worked my way up the RPM range until I had the car dialed in perfectly at 30 psi of boost. The car put down 636 at 30 psi, it's on E85 now. I was very happy. Not a single hiccup, not a misfire, no chugging, just pure, clean, smooth power.
Trent came back, asked me how it was going. I told him great at 30 psi and it was about time to flip the switch to high boost. So I flipped the switch.
Well, I am an idiot and regretfully I have to say that I have finally, as of today, blown up a car on our dyno, this is the first one and greatfully it is my own.
At about 7,000 rpm and 40 psi I saw a large flame shoot out of the engine bay, it was where the flame left the side of the head again, blowing the head gasket out. This time however it was not from a misfire or part defect, it was from my own ignorance.
Why never bothered to double check the timing is beyond me. Too much going on maybe, too stupid maybe.
I didn't even get out of the car, just shut it off. I pulled the log and looked at the AFR's, perfect. Then I looked at the timing...............not perfect. As a matter of fact not even in the freaking ball park. I don't know how I managed it but at peak torque I had the timing set about 10 degrees higher than it was in the AEM.
So now the car is broken again, this time by my own doing. Nobody to blame but myself.
I wonder how many times in the past knock control has saved me from this.
Not sure what I am going to do now. This time I may take the entire engine out and go through it. Last time I just pulled the head. We just went through a re-design on our pistons and I'd like to try them, so maybe it will all come out.
With less than 4 weeks of racing left in Ohio it's very doubtful this car is going to see 8's this year and that is the biggest disapointment off all.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Update, damn it.There appears to be a problem with my laptop and the Haltech, the laptop using Vista all of a sudden is shutting down and losing connection with the Haltech. So I grabbed my old laptop with XP in it and it worked absolutely flawlessly all day today.
I spent about 3 hours on the dyno today. It took me a substantial amount of time to get the low end dialed in but it is stellar now. The car drives perfectly smooth, the studdering the car has always had in it at 2500rpm'ish is complete gone. It has never rev'd this fast, as a matter of fact I have never seen any 4g63 rev this fast.
Now, here is some honesty, cause it's how I roll. When I set up the Haltech I took the fuel and timing maps and copied them from the AEM to the Haltech, figured it would get me close. The fuel was nearly dead on and without knock monitoring or knock control I assumed the timing was too. Yes, some of you are already reading into what is coming.
I slowly worked my way up the RPM range until I had the car dialed in perfectly at 30 psi of boost. The car put down 636 at 30 psi, it's on E85 now. I was very happy. Not a single hiccup, not a misfire, no chugging, just pure, clean, smooth power.
Trent came back, asked me how it was going. I told him great at 30 psi and it was about time to flip the switch to high boost. So I flipped the switch.
Well, I am an idiot and regretfully I have to say that I have finally, as of today, blown up a car on our dyno, this is the first one and greatfully it is my own.
At about 7,000 rpm and 40 psi I saw a large flame shoot out of the engine bay, it was where the flame left the side of the head again, blowing the head gasket out. This time however it was not from a misfire or part defect, it was from my own ignorance.
Why never bothered to double check the timing is beyond me. Too much going on maybe, too stupid maybe.
I didn't even get out of the car, just shut it off. I pulled the log and looked at the AFR's, perfect. Then I looked at the timing...............not perfect. As a matter of fact not even in the freaking ball park. I don't know how I managed it but at peak torque I had the timing set about 10 degrees higher than it was in the AEM.
So now the car is broken again, this time by my own doing. Nobody to blame but myself.
I wonder how many times in the past knock control has saved me from this.
Not sure what I am going to do now. This time I may take the entire engine out and go through it. Last time I just pulled the head. We just went through a re-design on our pistons and I'd like to try them, so maybe it will all come out.
With less than 4 weeks of racing left in Ohio it's very doubtful this car is going to see 8's this year and that is the biggest disapointment off all.
Sarry to hear that Dave, I think 10dg to much timing would have been a struggle for any knock sensor to sort on such a high spec/power output engine,
Did you have any knock sensor on the engine for you to monitor/hear with,
I always play extra safe on this so for me no knock monitoring no mapping takes place.
Mark