More broken parts for the Bad Bish
99% cars i tune doesnt have knock sensor,here is when time give you the experience,yea,i blow many engines in early 90"s when there was no wideband and when the came on was very expensive $2000.no dynos here in P.R for that time,almost no datalogging,only butt tuning and we Puertoricans were the fastest imports in planet.now we have knock sensors,wideband of your choice,dynos of all kinds and very nice datalogging,is here when we became lazy and forgot our roots of tuning.if i miss some of this tuning device i cant tune except for the knock sensor, i love Haltech units and you definately can tell the difference of the smooth working engine compared to AEM, you dont need ultra high mega end ecu to make power,fastest imports here have Microtech and thats a really crap ecu, just take it easy Dave,i bet my money on you!
Good thing we didnt need more than 40psi to make it.. I got the map smooth and just used the trim feature and went up.. I guess similar to boost comp..
Mike
In my experience the "aem problem" only shows its ugly head on cars which accelerate in an extreme manner and which run very high rpms. My pet theory is that the cpu processor can not keep up with all the tasks needed in those extreme applications and it literally crashes and the car blows up.
Not likely. At 10k RPMs, there's only 300 and change events happening per cycle. With a 100 MHz embedded CPU, that's over 300 thousand CPU clock cycles between crank trigger events. On my ECU+ device, which has a 40 MHz CPU, the CPU is around 90% idle at 10k RPMs.
BTW, I'm not quite diggin' why the AEM would kill an engine if the cam/crank signals go away. If the crank signal disappears, spark will stop. If the cam signal disappears, the system will almost certainly just keep firing like always (but not be able to start again). Seems like the only way for tragedy to happen is if one or the other signals goes crazy and the AEM's crazy detector isn't good enough.
Tom
Al -
Not likely. At 10k RPMs, there's only 300 and change events happening per cycle. With a 100 MHz embedded CPU, that's over 300 thousand CPU clock cycles between crank trigger events. On my ECU+ device, which has a 40 MHz CPU, the CPU is around 90% idle at 10k RPMs.
BTW, I'm not quite diggin' why the AEM would kill an engine if the cam/crank signals go away. If the crank signal disappears, spark will stop. If the cam signal disappears, the system will almost certainly just keep firing like always (but not be able to start again). Seems like the only way for tragedy to happen is if one or the other signals goes crazy and the AEM's crazy detector isn't good enough.
Tom
Not likely. At 10k RPMs, there's only 300 and change events happening per cycle. With a 100 MHz embedded CPU, that's over 300 thousand CPU clock cycles between crank trigger events. On my ECU+ device, which has a 40 MHz CPU, the CPU is around 90% idle at 10k RPMs.
BTW, I'm not quite diggin' why the AEM would kill an engine if the cam/crank signals go away. If the crank signal disappears, spark will stop. If the cam signal disappears, the system will almost certainly just keep firing like always (but not be able to start again). Seems like the only way for tragedy to happen is if one or the other signals goes crazy and the AEM's crazy detector isn't good enough.
Tom
Al
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Springfield, VA
A little late to this thread as David has already went another direction with his ECU it sounds like.
So far I haven't had any feedback with customers using the 12 tooth disc and losing the sync at high rpm. but I'm curious if a simple calibration adjustment could help this issue.
I didn't' see anyone mention it in the last 10 pages I've been reading through, but I was looking to see if anyone had tried using the "Sync Ignore" function? It's use is supposed to allow the ECU to sync at a lower rpm and then ignore the CAM sensor after X rpm. I've used this in the past as a work around on a few pesky honda distributors to get them to make a clean full pull with success. (before the T1 days)
Obviously it won't cure the cam sensor failure problem, but at least it should keep the damage to a minimum.
Anyone give this a try? Soon as I get my intake welded up and back on my car i'll see if i can do some runs with it set to 3-4k and test the results using our 12tooth.
So far I haven't had any feedback with customers using the 12 tooth disc and losing the sync at high rpm. but I'm curious if a simple calibration adjustment could help this issue.
I didn't' see anyone mention it in the last 10 pages I've been reading through, but I was looking to see if anyone had tried using the "Sync Ignore" function? It's use is supposed to allow the ECU to sync at a lower rpm and then ignore the CAM sensor after X rpm. I've used this in the past as a work around on a few pesky honda distributors to get them to make a clean full pull with success. (before the T1 days)
Obviously it won't cure the cam sensor failure problem, but at least it should keep the damage to a minimum.
Anyone give this a try? Soon as I get my intake welded up and back on my car i'll see if i can do some runs with it set to 3-4k and test the results using our 12tooth.
Last edited by BBrooks; Oct 1, 2009 at 12:02 AM.
BBrooks, glad to see you stop by. I've tried to plug you a few times in this thread, hope you noticed. I am with you, I have not seen anyone lose sync with the 12 tooth either. My problem the first time was last July before the 12 tooth and then this time after taking it back off as I was considering running the stock ECU on the car.
I have no tried the "sync ignore" function. I have told AEM that I feel the entire problem is due to something set up incorrectly in the actual program for the car. It has to be, if it wasn't then all other ECU's would have the same problems and they do not.
Something else some of you guys posting in hear are not getting is the cam sensor "failure" is not a complete failure of the part. I have only seen 1 car that had the sensor fail to the point of not running/starting. The rest of them have had misfire issues like the plugs are bad or the coil dwell is set up incorrectly. Change the cam sensor and the problem disappears.
To me it is very easy to explain why lower hp cars don't have this same issue. First off most of them are not being tuned to the limits of allowable timing. My car for example from peak torque to 10,500 rpm has 10+ degrees of timing advance on the same load line. When the sensor "fails" the rpm's spike, I can see it in the datalog. At one instance the car is at 6,000 rpm at .10 seconds later it is at 10,900 rpm, the timing in that same spot went from 10 degrees to say 21 degrees (the numbers used there are examples, not factual number).
I don't have the brains to figure it out, Brad I am pretty sure since you were smart enough to figure out the 12 tooth, you could probably figure out what is actually wrong with how the AEM software is set up and fix it all with some changes to the base cal. file. Not much money in doing it that way for you (that is not an insult at all) so I don't expect you to do it. The 12 tooth works perfectly and is cheap enough.
I tune a lot of cars, stock ECU, AEM's and Power FC's. With all of those the only time I see a problem is with the AEM. The Power FC isn't popular but it should be, it's cheap and the car runs like a dream on it. Now after installing the Haltech I can tell you all there is a MAJOR difference in how the car runs, accelerates and how clean it sounds. Nobody is going to convince me I picked up a brand new stand alone, spent 3 hours on the dyno with it and have a better tune built than I did with thousands of hours in the AEM EMS, it's not possible, I'm not that smart so it tells me the Haltech software, processor and larger maps have to have something to do with it.
I have no tried the "sync ignore" function. I have told AEM that I feel the entire problem is due to something set up incorrectly in the actual program for the car. It has to be, if it wasn't then all other ECU's would have the same problems and they do not.
Something else some of you guys posting in hear are not getting is the cam sensor "failure" is not a complete failure of the part. I have only seen 1 car that had the sensor fail to the point of not running/starting. The rest of them have had misfire issues like the plugs are bad or the coil dwell is set up incorrectly. Change the cam sensor and the problem disappears.
To me it is very easy to explain why lower hp cars don't have this same issue. First off most of them are not being tuned to the limits of allowable timing. My car for example from peak torque to 10,500 rpm has 10+ degrees of timing advance on the same load line. When the sensor "fails" the rpm's spike, I can see it in the datalog. At one instance the car is at 6,000 rpm at .10 seconds later it is at 10,900 rpm, the timing in that same spot went from 10 degrees to say 21 degrees (the numbers used there are examples, not factual number).
I don't have the brains to figure it out, Brad I am pretty sure since you were smart enough to figure out the 12 tooth, you could probably figure out what is actually wrong with how the AEM software is set up and fix it all with some changes to the base cal. file. Not much money in doing it that way for you (that is not an insult at all) so I don't expect you to do it. The 12 tooth works perfectly and is cheap enough.
I tune a lot of cars, stock ECU, AEM's and Power FC's. With all of those the only time I see a problem is with the AEM. The Power FC isn't popular but it should be, it's cheap and the car runs like a dream on it. Now after installing the Haltech I can tell you all there is a MAJOR difference in how the car runs, accelerates and how clean it sounds. Nobody is going to convince me I picked up a brand new stand alone, spent 3 hours on the dyno with it and have a better tune built than I did with thousands of hours in the AEM EMS, it's not possible, I'm not that smart so it tells me the Haltech software, processor and larger maps have to have something to do with it.
Semi-good news. Trent took the head off the car this morning. The block is completely undamaged, the head only has a small spot where it was burnt, gasket is pretty blown but I've seen much worse. The piston/spark plug are perfect. I'm not going to pull the pistons out, they look too good on top, I'm confident it's good. (I sure freaking hope anyway).
The head is apart and being cleaned so we can weld the small spot it hurt, mill it and get it back on.
The SS oring was damaged in the block and to be honest, I noticed it last time but thought it would be fine. Looking at it this time it was obviously too low and I'm guessing is the reason it let go this time too, I should have replaced it.
So, a new oring, weld/mill the head and it will be back in business. Hell it may be back on the dyno tomorrow if things go smoothly.
The head is apart and being cleaned so we can weld the small spot it hurt, mill it and get it back on.
The SS oring was damaged in the block and to be honest, I noticed it last time but thought it would be fine. Looking at it this time it was obviously too low and I'm guessing is the reason it let go this time too, I should have replaced it.
So, a new oring, weld/mill the head and it will be back in business. Hell it may be back on the dyno tomorrow if things go smoothly.
The Hydra has a much better "feel" on an Evo as does the Fcon v pro and every other stand alone other than the AEM - it just never hasa crisp "feel" with the AEM hard to explain in words but when you go to the oher boxes you can feel it
On the Subaru the AEM is working perfect btw
Al
On the Subaru the AEM is working perfect btw
Al
Semi-good news. Trent took the head off the car this morning. The block is completely undamaged, the head only has a small spot where it was burnt, gasket is pretty blown but I've seen much worse. The piston/spark plug are perfect. I'm not going to pull the pistons out, they look too good on top, I'm confident it's good. (I sure freaking hope anyway).
The head is apart and being cleaned so we can weld the small spot it hurt, mill it and get it back on.
The SS oring was damaged in the block and to be honest, I noticed it last time but thought it would be fine. Looking at it this time it was obviously too low and I'm guessing is the reason it let go this time too, I should have replaced it.
So, a new oring, weld/mill the head and it will be back in business. Hell it may be back on the dyno tomorrow if things go smoothly.
The head is apart and being cleaned so we can weld the small spot it hurt, mill it and get it back on.
The SS oring was damaged in the block and to be honest, I noticed it last time but thought it would be fine. Looking at it this time it was obviously too low and I'm guessing is the reason it let go this time too, I should have replaced it.
So, a new oring, weld/mill the head and it will be back in business. Hell it may be back on the dyno tomorrow if things go smoothly.
The head was cleaned and welded today. It was being milled also. Tomorrow it will get checked over for the valves sealing and re-assembled. I had to order a few parts over night delivery, if I get them, the head should be back on tomorrow and the car will be running again!
I want to thank Crcain for putting Vipec in contact with me. They want me to test one of their plug and play EMS's. It is on it's way to me. I appreciate your confidence in my crcrain and will try the unit out and give it a full review.
Also, I am waiting on a price on a Motec. I'm afraid I have been bitten by another testing bug and this is going to turn into a long winter of trying different fuel management. In the end it is going to come down to what whomever is using is most comfortable with I think.
The Motec because of it's reputation and my experience with it on the 7 second Buick I drove for 3-4 years is pretty appealing to me. I was always put off because of the pricing in the past but the initial pricing I got was reasonable, not cheap but reasonable. In the 3-4 years I raced the Buick (which made 1485 hp) not once was there a single glitch, problem, misfire or stumble from that car. It amazed me that with no IAC motor I could reach in the car, hit the start button and it would fire and idle without fail. Kenny Duttweiller is a genius
I want to thank Crcain for putting Vipec in contact with me. They want me to test one of their plug and play EMS's. It is on it's way to me. I appreciate your confidence in my crcrain and will try the unit out and give it a full review.
Also, I am waiting on a price on a Motec. I'm afraid I have been bitten by another testing bug and this is going to turn into a long winter of trying different fuel management. In the end it is going to come down to what whomever is using is most comfortable with I think.
The Motec because of it's reputation and my experience with it on the 7 second Buick I drove for 3-4 years is pretty appealing to me. I was always put off because of the pricing in the past but the initial pricing I got was reasonable, not cheap but reasonable. In the 3-4 years I raced the Buick (which made 1485 hp) not once was there a single glitch, problem, misfire or stumble from that car. It amazed me that with no IAC motor I could reach in the car, hit the start button and it would fire and idle without fail. Kenny Duttweiller is a genius