I've seen engine failures from excessive heat as in overheating an engine or the piston to wall clearance being set up too tight in the first place and having problems when the engine gets hot. I have not seen a failure of any type from lack of oil jets.

Everyone has an opinion, some of us have a lot of records and results to back our opinions up.

I haven't built one or two engines, I'd guess I've built around a thousand.

 

Thanks David.

Mikey

 

spoken like a true master.

 

do the squirters help any decent amount with wristpin bushing lubrication? it seems like they would.

 

I'm pretty certain the intention is just cooling.

Nevertheless, I came across an intelligent, no-nonsense synopsis of squirters, application and function:

Piston Oil Squirters

 

Some good information right there.

 

+1 Thanks Ted

Mikey

 

I hate these type of threads. Its really hard getting usefull information. There are two sides to every discussion.

Burshur just posted an interesting post on no oil cooler hard blocked engine that surprised him with oil temps that didnt go over 185 after 20 minutes. My experience is a little different on that. A friend here wanted to shave a few pounds off his dsm by taking his oil cooler off. it also makes it easier to change oil filter. The oil cooler on dsm is half the size of evo 8 cooler. the 9 cooler is even larger. He reported his oil temps rose 40 degrees just driving to the track which was a 45 minute trip. The temps went from 190 to 230. He was asking me if he should be concerned.

My take on squirters is I never take them off. and I tap 2.4 blocks to use them. Its valuable piston cooling and I want that for my builds. When you make your car faster you are creating more heat. larger than factory oil coolers become needed. larger or more efficient radiators become needed. larger inter coolers become needed. Your pistons get hotter too. They are cooled two ways. By the rings contacting cylinder walls. And by oil cooling. Makes no sense to eliminate half the piston cooling. especially when one reduces ring thickness in the name of RPM.

I think this debate would be much different if one could install a temp sensor on the piston and monitor temp. Then we could do a back to back and have some actual hard data to talk about. failing that this debate is all based on theory. So the bottom line is pick your theory and be happy with it. And leave the other side alone and let them be happy with their choice.

 

Buschur is correct 100 percent. Engine failures can be attributed to poor balancing, too much tq, parts malfunction. But I have never seen oil squirters cause a "failure" Lack of a cooler will cause the piston temp to rise and weaken the piston over time, knock etc butttt that doesn't mean your engine will fail, because not everybody road races or realllly pushes the car that way.

would i run squirtes? yes, because it doesn't hurt to squirt the piston with some cool oil to bring down temps. Is it needed or my engine will blow? I don't see any hard evidence supporting that claim at all.

 

Correct.

I'm one guy who supports Mitsubishi and their technicians. Look back over these forums and how we build cars and you can see how much faith I have in Mitsubishi. We try to keep every single OEM part we can because their engineering is so good. The cylinder head for example, look back years ago at the clown who said how bad the heads were and all that needed to be done to make them even work..........he's gone BTW. We've spent retarded amount of hours on the flow bench and let me tell you, the stock head is exceptional.

I believe the 4g63 is one of the best engineered engines ever built. Take into consideration though that the 2.4 blocks without squirters and the non turbo early blocks all will run for over 200,000 miles without a problem. Yes, I know they are not turbo engines, less heat, less hp etc. What we are also talking about now are building "race" engines that most of you will never put 50,000 miles on after you build them to this level as most of them sit in a garage or are driven for pleasure only. Also consider the amount of time any of these engines spend under boost on a daily basis even if you do drive them. What you run it through 4 gears at WOT if you are lucky once a day......you think that squirter is going to save you on those 4 gears? Just put some thought into it.

IF I was building a sole purpose road race car that was to run 24 hours at a time (like we just finished actually) then I'd use the squirters in the block.

Any other build I find that they are simply not needed, not worth the extra effort/cost to install and mostly not worth the drop in oil pressure and drop of oil that is retained in the oil pan where it is most needed.

I think theory gets in the way of too many builds or projects of any type. Some of the best wear I've ever seen of any engine has been on the 2.1's we build, whether it's the change in the rod ratio, no oil jets or whatever it is, the fact is those engines have no jets in them.

Please, by all means, have your machine shop install them, write a novel about how they work and post pictures. I am simply telling you guys what I have seen first hand, use it for what you want or tell your friends I'm an idiot, either way it doesn't matter in the least to me.

 

wow, the accuracy of our ideas is amazing. This should be glued as the ultimate "do i need squirters" reply. As indicated David is right because I have not seen evidence of failure due to squirters and probably wont. Race cars that do 500 laps for 10 hours etc use them. nobody is driving these high power builds 24 hours a day. Also, keep in mind that for piston cooling to be needed you need to rev high continously. It is not needed at lower rpm's. So only long driving high rpm's for many hours. that only happens on road racing. And if you do drive that way on the highway you should go to jail.


SOooo........ Regarding L19 headstuds, are they needed on the 2.4 build to hold better boost? I've heard the gaskets on the 2.4 may not hold as well so stronger headstuds above 500 whp would be needed over the regular arp headstuds.

 

On the 2.4 long rod David is building me he did comment that the L19 head studs are the best bet because they will help seal the head up better and avoid any issues.

 

thanks sven, that confirms my assumption. guess ill have to sell these regular arp headstuds.

 

hold on now i got the undercut headstuds its like the middle man LOL. you can get those. I got them on a good deal from co_o4 awhile back i did not want to use regular one for fear of headlift so i was going to get l19 when i was told about the middle man undercut headstuds.

 

I also have a question for David or any road course racers out there. I was planning on doing some road coursing for fun and was wondering without oil squirters what if one was to ceramic coat the pistons? Would that give you the same effect since the job of the coating is to solve the problems of wear, heat, friction and corrosion. like swain tech coat the pistons for example. Just curious