Twin Scroll Turbos?? Monster Spool.. FACT or FICTION???
I have had both twin scroll and single scroll, in the absence of any solid data I had to make my choices based on what I could deduce from the haphazard results...
I'm currently on a SS T3 .63 on a 2.3L 4G63
and I would venture to say that it would take a TS T3 1.06 to match the HP output of the SS T3 .63 still on my T3 TS headers...
and the transient response of the T3 .63 is pretty good, I don’t believe a T3 1.06 on the same manifold can spool any quicker or offer significantly better transient response, or make any more power...
Well at least that’s the conclusion I came to after playing with this stuff for the last 3 years... Initially I thought that a TS T3 .78 was equivalent to the T3 .63 but I'm not so sure anymore...
If I had to choose between a HTA35R with a T3 .63 or a TS T3 1.06 I would choose the T3 .63 given my experience I feel you trade top end power for low end and transient response with a Twin Scroll...
regards
Sal
.
I'm currently on a SS T3 .63 on a 2.3L 4G63
and I would venture to say that it would take a TS T3 1.06 to match the HP output of the SS T3 .63 still on my T3 TS headers...
and the transient response of the T3 .63 is pretty good, I don’t believe a T3 1.06 on the same manifold can spool any quicker or offer significantly better transient response, or make any more power...
Well at least that’s the conclusion I came to after playing with this stuff for the last 3 years... Initially I thought that a TS T3 .78 was equivalent to the T3 .63 but I'm not so sure anymore...
If I had to choose between a HTA35R with a T3 .63 or a TS T3 1.06 I would choose the T3 .63 given my experience I feel you trade top end power for low end and transient response with a Twin Scroll...
regards
Sal
.
Sal a t3 .63 and a t3 divided 1.06 are nowhere near similarly sized housings for the same engine configuration.
I went from a t3 .63 to a t4 1.06 and didn't lose power or tq anywhere in the revrange.
Sam
I don't keep up here much anymore. The last I knew however. The so called "professionals" haven't done any R&D or ever produced any solid data endorsing their marketing campaign. I'd bet more research went into how to market their new product than the actual development of it. Reminds of some of the crap you see for sale on late night TV or the Home Shopping Network.
I have had several 'SS is King' people in my EVO, and they all left with the same dejected look on their faces...
How can a big turbo make all that power and still be so responsive and fun to drive, TS - that's how!
So for my next turbo I may go to a HTA35R or a FS635 with the T3 1.06 TS and see how it compares to my T3 .63 6262. (rest of my setup will stay the same)
hope its worth the extra money...
Sal
.
Find something with the same wastegate flanges to save some money!! It will be well worth it.
Sam
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 201
Likes: 9
From: NorCal
30R's do pretty well in a 1.06 TS T3 housing.
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
Mike should just buy a TS setup and test it vs his single scroll kit and be done with this stupid discussion. No one is proving a direct comparison, and data to back their claims. Mike just do a back to back to test, prove that TS doesn't work or become a believer 
it would be good for the community
it would be good for the community
Mike should just buy a TS setup and test it vs his single scroll kit and be done with this stupid discussion. No one is proving a direct comparison, and data to back their claims. Mike just do a back to back to test, prove that TS doesn't work or become a believer it would be good for the community
it would be good for the community
As technology improves there will be more introductions of TS turbos that can be used for a straight up comparison. Look at the new EFR BW turbos, its just a matter of time...
Mike has the resources to do the test
30R's do pretty well in a 1.06 TS T3 housing.
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: nyc
Garrett released native .82 and 1.06 divided T3 hotsides for 30r and 35r turbos a few months ago:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=GTH
We're running a BW S362 on a DSM in a divided T3 .85ar hotside, seeing 38psi by 5k and making 700+whp. Another friend is running the same turbo/mani setup with a .76 div. T3 housing and seeing 24psi at 4100 rpms. Both cars on 2.0 bottom ends. For comparison, another local with an S362 running a 2.3 engine and open T3 hotside sees full boost just over 5k and made 691whp.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=GTH
We're running a BW S362 on a DSM in a divided T3 .85ar hotside, seeing 38psi by 5k and making 700+whp. Another friend is running the same turbo/mani setup with a .76 div. T3 housing and seeing 24psi at 4100 rpms. Both cars on 2.0 bottom ends. For comparison, another local with an S362 running a 2.3 engine and open T3 hotside sees full boost just over 5k and made 691whp.
30R's do pretty well in a 1.06 TS T3 housing.
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
35R's have no business in a TS T3 housing.
A 35R with a TS 1.06 T3 will have similar topend performance as a SS 0.63 A/R T3.
1.06 * 0.6 = 0.64
Curt Brown thru down 811whp with a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing on a HTA3586R.
An equivalent TS T3 housing that has the same volume as a SS 0.82 A/R T3 housing would have to be 1.37 A/R TS housing.
0.82 / 0.6 = 1.37
I understand TS is the way to go but with the T3,T4 thing Im a lil confused.
Last edited by ceegutta; Dec 24, 2010 at 04:20 PM.
I really did try and read all the previous pages but is there a consensus of what would spool better with the new GTX3076R wheel? From what I would gather I should look at a T4 1.06 A/R Twinscroll vs a T3 .63 A/R Single with 1.25" runners and a goal of 600-650 crank HP. This car will be a daily driver and used for road racing where response time and spool is highly disireable.
Currently I have the Garrett Evo X kit that spools the regular GT3076R at 20 psi in 4th gear by 3600 RPM. It's a .94 A/R Twinscroll that has essentially lost the twinscroll benefit since I'm using an ATP O2 DP with Tial 44mm WG to fix the broken internal WG failure. Unfortunately there is no divider leading right up to the Tial WG but I could weld one in to see if suddenly it gained 300 rpm of spool?
I find the ball bearing responsiveness of the combo works quite well, and if I can have STM make a custom T4 1.06 A/R twinscroll setup with a GTX3076R and 1.25" runners I think it would do really well.
Any thoughts?
Currently I have the Garrett Evo X kit that spools the regular GT3076R at 20 psi in 4th gear by 3600 RPM. It's a .94 A/R Twinscroll that has essentially lost the twinscroll benefit since I'm using an ATP O2 DP with Tial 44mm WG to fix the broken internal WG failure. Unfortunately there is no divider leading right up to the Tial WG but I could weld one in to see if suddenly it gained 300 rpm of spool?
I find the ball bearing responsiveness of the combo works quite well, and if I can have STM make a custom T4 1.06 A/R twinscroll setup with a GTX3076R and 1.25" runners I think it would do really well.
Any thoughts?
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 201
Likes: 9
From: NorCal
Here's a 1.06 TS T3 HTA3076R.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e85-33psi.html
Like I said above, a 30R in a 1.06 TS T3 housing doesn't do bad at all.
35R has non business in a TS T3 housing.
I'll be running the EFR7670 in the TS 1.05 A/R T4 housing.
If I ever need to go bigger, I'll just step it up to the EFR8374!
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e85-33psi.html
Like I said above, a 30R in a 1.06 TS T3 housing doesn't do bad at all.
35R has non business in a TS T3 housing.
I'll be running the EFR7670 in the TS 1.05 A/R T4 housing.
If I ever need to go bigger, I'll just step it up to the EFR8374!
I really did try and read all the previous pages but is there a consensus of what would spool better with the new GTX3076R wheel? From what I would gather I should look at a T4 1.06 A/R Twinscroll vs a T3 .63 A/R Single with 1.25" runners and a goal of 600-650 crank HP. This car will be a daily driver and used for road racing where response time and spool is highly disireable.
HTA3076 with 1.06 twinscroll T3 on E85 - https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...e85-33psi.html
I really did try and read all the previous pages but is there a consensus of what would spool better with the new GTX3076R wheel? From what I would gather I should look at a T4 1.06 A/R Twinscroll vs a T3 .63 A/R Single with 1.25" runners and a goal of 600-650 crank HP. This car will be a daily driver and used for road racing where response time and spool is highly disireable.