Al's Dyno stuff
i agree with that Al and i wasn't talking about the curves. i was talking about the final numbers that tell you nothing!!!! you can have a 500whp dyno sheet but if your curve is ****ty than you have nothing. not talking about you, i have your dynoflash and i love the curve more than the final number i put down (261whp stock).
I have always valued shivs dyno numbers because.
1. He dynoed many more Evo than anyone else and published them. The results were very consistent and repeatable. A sign of good consistent methods. Others may have dynoed more but I never have seen a stack of charts from eight different Evos like shiv had. Much like a good Gage R&R in quality control. It is repeatability and reproducibility that matter. Shiv's dyno has it. The other I just don't know.
2. The numbers were very consistent with dyno's around the world. Does not really mater here in the states for drag numbers but it was easier to compare US Evos to the the UK market cars and their dyno runs.
3. The DD is just a better tunning tool and that is what I really want out of a dyno run good consistent info for tunning.
4. Trap speeds are another fine comparison. But don't tell much about how tractable an engine is. I don't drag race so it is not too useful for me.
1. He dynoed many more Evo than anyone else and published them. The results were very consistent and repeatable. A sign of good consistent methods. Others may have dynoed more but I never have seen a stack of charts from eight different Evos like shiv had. Much like a good Gage R&R in quality control. It is repeatability and reproducibility that matter. Shiv's dyno has it. The other I just don't know.
2. The numbers were very consistent with dyno's around the world. Does not really mater here in the states for drag numbers but it was easier to compare US Evos to the the UK market cars and their dyno runs.
3. The DD is just a better tunning tool and that is what I really want out of a dyno run good consistent info for tunning.
4. Trap speeds are another fine comparison. But don't tell much about how tractable an engine is. I don't drag race so it is not too useful for me.
Last edited by erikgj; Dec 6, 2003 at 10:29 AM.
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From: Arlington, TX
Originally posted by Daveyd
Say I made 200HP on Dyno A and on Dyno B I made 250HP with the same car. I then modded my car and made 220HP on Dyno A and 270HP on Dyno B. Regardless of the "Horsepower" on either dyno, they both have shown the same results of the mods.....isn't that what the majority of people use dynos for anyways?
Say I made 200HP on Dyno A and on Dyno B I made 250HP with the same car. I then modded my car and made 220HP on Dyno A and 270HP on Dyno B. Regardless of the "Horsepower" on either dyno, they both have shown the same results of the mods.....isn't that what the majority of people use dynos for anyways?
wow.....I guess I took for granted that everyone posted SAE corrected numbers...doing it any other way just makes it harder for people to comprehend (as if trying to interpret the results from 2 places using different dynos on opposite coasts was not hard enough!).
Saying the 1320 is whwere the real tuners are seperated is ignorant. Is it a viable measure of performance...absolutely. It's especially useful for seeing the HP the car is making (via the trap speed). Is it any more qualified than a car thats road raced? Absolutely not. All it shows is that for those 1320 feet, the car ran well.....now, making that setup last for a 30 minute track session (weather conditions aside for a second) is a whole other story entirely, and if you don't see the validity there, then I am sorry. The real truth is that the vast majority of owners here will never drag, nor do track days in their car.
Saying the 1320 is whwere the real tuners are seperated is ignorant. Is it a viable measure of performance...absolutely. It's especially useful for seeing the HP the car is making (via the trap speed). Is it any more qualified than a car thats road raced? Absolutely not. All it shows is that for those 1320 feet, the car ran well.....now, making that setup last for a 30 minute track session (weather conditions aside for a second) is a whole other story entirely, and if you don't see the validity there, then I am sorry. The real truth is that the vast majority of owners here will never drag, nor do track days in their car.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Dec 6, 2003 at 05:18 PM.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
.....now, making that setup last for a 30 minute track session (weather conditions aside for a second) is a whole other story entirely, and if you don't see the validity there, then I am sorry. The real truth is that the vast majority of owners here will never drag, nor do track days in their car.
.....now, making that setup last for a 30 minute track session (weather conditions aside for a second) is a whole other story entirely, and if you don't see the validity there, then I am sorry. The real truth is that the vast majority of owners here will never drag, nor do track days in their car.
My 2c,
shiv
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From: West
Originally posted by steve_evo
I personally think that the drag strip is a better judge of power than dyno comparisons.
I personally think that the drag strip is a better judge of power than dyno comparisons.
Point being again that human error is entered in at the strip.
Oh and let's not forget that the Evo isn't a drag strip car as half the people here like to say.
so, would you, shiv, be my best bet for road race tuning? i could care less about the 1320. i live for track events.
of course, i could be getting a biased answer... from you directly.
of course, i could be getting a biased answer... from you directly.
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From: MN
I think you would be better off goin with Buschur for your tuner. His stages have been the best tested as far as I can see ,and they have been proven to kick *** and I know I don't stand alone in here when I say this! I have Stage 1+2 with the New Front Mount and I couldn't be happier. I drive very hard!!! I Autocross and Drag Race and the set up has helped me out ALOT!! They have the #'s and the knowledge to put you where you need to be. I know from experience! Go with the guys who know! Go with the best! 
BUSCHUR 
BUSCHUR
Last edited by EVO8_DEES_NUTS; Dec 6, 2003 at 11:11 PM.
As far as dyno numbers go, check my sig line. I think that sums it up.
Threads like this are the reason I am pretty much through with adding more power to my car. It's plenty fast already and I have nothing to prove (or brag via a dyno sheet) to anyone. Good luck guys with the HP wars.
Chris
Threads like this are the reason I am pretty much through with adding more power to my car. It's plenty fast already and I have nothing to prove (or brag via a dyno sheet) to anyone. Good luck guys with the HP wars.
Chris
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Originally posted by DynoKing
lolrof, that has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. What if you have a bad start? what is your power at 6500? What does the curve look like? Man there sure are a bunch of dumbasses on this board. and once I get my mods done on Monday I will be OFF of this board for a long time. Too many dumbass here that have a IQ of less then 10. Seems like most evo drivers are not very smart.
lolrof, that has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. What if you have a bad start? what is your power at 6500? What does the curve look like? Man there sure are a bunch of dumbasses on this board. and once I get my mods done on Monday I will be OFF of this board for a long time. Too many dumbass here that have a IQ of less then 10. Seems like most evo drivers are not very smart.
Track times do say more then dynos, dyno kings. Dyno's are an indirect measurement of performance, tracks are a direct measurement of performance.
You are referring to a drag strip, and the thing about measuring performance at a drag strip is how little, especially in a car that is not significantly traction limited, MPH change. My car trapps between 117 and 118 MPH on every pass regardless of whether its a 13.3 or a 11.7.
Does what your power is at at a given RPM trully affect how you drive the car? Oh, it may give you vague notions of when to shift, but you should always be able to determine that yourself. Do curves matter? To a degree, of course, but they matter in that they ae either good or bad for your driving style. If you can't tell the difference through racing, then it really doesn't matter what dyno's say.
Supra owners sometimes begin to think the dyno is more important....they also ussually suck at driving. And those among them who get out there and race their cars take their dyno's witrh a grain of salt, and laugh at the dyno queens.
Saying that dyno's are better then racing and the track is similair to saying masturbation is better then sex. Ones the real thing, and one has no practiccal applications(although, it is fun).
Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Track times do say more then dynos, dyno kings. Dyno's are an indirect measurement of performance, tracks are a direct measurement of performance.
You are referring to a drag strip, and the thing about measuring performance at a drag strip is how little, especially in a car that is not significantly traction limited, MPH change. My car trapps between 117 and 118 MPH on every pass regardless of whether its a 13.3 or a 11.7.
Does what your power is at at a given RPM trully affect how you drive the car? Oh, it may give you vague notions of when to shift, but you should always be able to determine that yourself. Do curves matter? To a degree, of course, but they matter in that they ae either good or bad for your driving style. If you can't tell the difference through racing, then it really doesn't matter what dyno's say.
Supra owners sometimes begin to think the dyno is more important....they also ussually suck at driving. And those among them who get out there and race their cars take their dyno's witrh a grain of salt, and laugh at the dyno queens.
Saying that dyno's are better then racing and the track is similair to saying masturbation is better then sex. Ones the real thing, and one has no practiccal applications(although, it is fun).
Track times do say more then dynos, dyno kings. Dyno's are an indirect measurement of performance, tracks are a direct measurement of performance.
You are referring to a drag strip, and the thing about measuring performance at a drag strip is how little, especially in a car that is not significantly traction limited, MPH change. My car trapps between 117 and 118 MPH on every pass regardless of whether its a 13.3 or a 11.7.
Does what your power is at at a given RPM trully affect how you drive the car? Oh, it may give you vague notions of when to shift, but you should always be able to determine that yourself. Do curves matter? To a degree, of course, but they matter in that they ae either good or bad for your driving style. If you can't tell the difference through racing, then it really doesn't matter what dyno's say.
Supra owners sometimes begin to think the dyno is more important....they also ussually suck at driving. And those among them who get out there and race their cars take their dyno's witrh a grain of salt, and laugh at the dyno queens.
Saying that dyno's are better then racing and the track is similair to saying masturbation is better then sex. Ones the real thing, and one has no practiccal applications(although, it is fun).
Well put!
Ken
Originally posted by Daveyd
Say I made 200HP on Dyno A and on Dyno B I made 250HP with the same car. I then modded my car and made 220HP on Dyno A and 270HP on Dyno B. Regardless of the "Horsepower" on either dyno, they both have shown the same results of the mods.....isn't that what the majority of people use dynos for anyways?
Say I made 200HP on Dyno A and on Dyno B I made 250HP with the same car. I then modded my car and made 220HP on Dyno A and 270HP on Dyno B. Regardless of the "Horsepower" on either dyno, they both have shown the same results of the mods.....isn't that what the majority of people use dynos for anyways?
...on the other hand...there should be one global language or interpretation of calibration to determine horsepower that all manufacturers of this equipment should abide by.(something more accurate than SAE numbers)..similar to weights and measures....or torque wrenches..a good torque wrench when calibrated correctly is ***** accurate...very little if any tool to tool variation, when calibrated correctly..
Originally posted by Mister2zx3
uh actually that would really suck, one tyhat they are different for SAE corrected values tells you one of them is just plain broken, mis calibrated or used for high HP claims. and if you want to follow the nonsense that they should be somehow similar it would probably best be best if they were proportonal, so 10% gain on a dyno should be a 10% gain anywhere else so A would then make 220 (200 + 10% (20)) and B 275 (250 + 10% (25)) .
uh actually that would really suck, one tyhat they are different for SAE corrected values tells you one of them is just plain broken, mis calibrated or used for high HP claims. and if you want to follow the nonsense that they should be somehow similar it would probably best be best if they were proportonal, so 10% gain on a dyno should be a 10% gain anywhere else so A would then make 220 (200 + 10% (20)) and B 275 (250 + 10% (25)) .
[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve_evo
[B]I personally think that the drag strip is a better judge of power than dyno comparisons.
You crack me up! The difference between staging shallow & deep is almost 0.2 secs! Let alone trying to launch these cars.
Just get a "Al's" tuned car, & any vishnu comparable product on the dyno @ the same time & put an end to this crap.
Besides, being a california resident, I bet 90% of vushnu products are sent with catalytic converters, while I have yet to see a post of Al's or any bushur post making refernece to running a cat.
Please compare oranges to oranges only please.
[B]I personally think that the drag strip is a better judge of power than dyno comparisons.
You crack me up! The difference between staging shallow & deep is almost 0.2 secs! Let alone trying to launch these cars.
Just get a "Al's" tuned car, & any vishnu comparable product on the dyno @ the same time & put an end to this crap.
Besides, being a california resident, I bet 90% of vushnu products are sent with catalytic converters, while I have yet to see a post of Al's or any bushur post making refernece to running a cat.
Please compare oranges to oranges only please.