Al's Dyno stuff
Originally posted by JRock
I'd just be happy to know how Buschur's Stage 2 upgrade consisting of
BR EVO VIII MAF PIPE KIT
BR EVO VIII BATTERY KIT
BR EVO VIII UPPER I/C PIPE KIT
gives a 60+whp gain (343whp on the dyno sheet they posted) at the same 19psi boost level as their Stage 1 kit which shows 284whp on the dyno sheet posted for that.
Heck they claim "you should be at 300whp at Stage 1" even though their dyno shows 284whp. So give them 300whp. That's still 43whp short of Stage 2's dyno which shows 343whp with (supposedly) just those three upgrades.
Seriously - read this page then click the link at the bottom to read Stage 2 and tell me what I'm missing:
http://www.buschurracing.com/EVO_Stage1.html
Also, personally, I hate when modders tune for 94 Octane with 75% of us can't get either due to state restriction or simply location/convenience. I wish they'd tune for 91 Cali gas so I can have a pleasant surprise when my 93 octane car runs even better numbers on a dyno, not tuned for 94 and then those of you in CA/AZ/etc with your 91 Cali octane have problems.
Come on, really now.
I'm looking over Vishnu's stage upgrades right now and so far the dyno comparisons are much more believable although it seems pricier to run similar times to the times Buschur claims at each staged level.
I'd just be happy to know how Buschur's Stage 2 upgrade consisting of
BR EVO VIII MAF PIPE KIT
BR EVO VIII BATTERY KIT
BR EVO VIII UPPER I/C PIPE KIT
gives a 60+whp gain (343whp on the dyno sheet they posted) at the same 19psi boost level as their Stage 1 kit which shows 284whp on the dyno sheet posted for that.
Heck they claim "you should be at 300whp at Stage 1" even though their dyno shows 284whp. So give them 300whp. That's still 43whp short of Stage 2's dyno which shows 343whp with (supposedly) just those three upgrades.
Seriously - read this page then click the link at the bottom to read Stage 2 and tell me what I'm missing:
http://www.buschurracing.com/EVO_Stage1.html
Also, personally, I hate when modders tune for 94 Octane with 75% of us can't get either due to state restriction or simply location/convenience. I wish they'd tune for 91 Cali gas so I can have a pleasant surprise when my 93 octane car runs even better numbers on a dyno, not tuned for 94 and then those of you in CA/AZ/etc with your 91 Cali octane have problems.
Come on, really now.
I'm looking over Vishnu's stage upgrades right now and so far the dyno comparisons are much more believable although it seems pricier to run similar times to the times Buschur claims at each staged level.
BTW - we offer a 91 octane reflash - a 92 octane reflash - and a 93 octane reflash - NO MORE 94 octane versions - AND the custom tuned version
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: West
Originally posted by DynoFlash
We are also seeing 60 - 80 whp over stock on our dyno with teh BR stage 2 with dyno flash so the BR results are right on the money
We are also seeing 60 - 80 whp over stock on our dyno with teh BR stage 2 with dyno flash so the BR results are right on the money
Also you're talking about adding your dynoflash to the mix - is that included in the Stage2 price? Didn't think so. No offense to you; I'm just trying to figure out how those three minor mods they listed as Stage 2 are supposed to give me 40-60whp gain over Stage 1, because that's what they're hinting at, and I can't figure out for the life of me how that could be possible.
None of this has anything to do with your tuning or DynoFlash because that's not part of these Stages I'm looking at on Buschur's website.
I don't think they are hinting at anything. The dyno plots clearly show the change in hp. Sure different dynos may be different as far as showing how much hp a car truly makes (2 wheel, 4 wheel, different brands, whatever). But as long as one is using the same dyno to tune with under more or less similar conditions changes in hp that result from a different tune aren't very disputable.
And I've traveled to over half of the states in this country and the only two I remember off the top of my head not having 93 or 94 octane gas is Cali and Nevada. I just think your 75% figure is a little off. Its probably more like 25-35% only have 91 octane available as premium pump gas. Not everybody is from California and Maryland, you know. I personally would much rather see a tune with 93 to 94 octane than 91 octane, but then again I can drive down the street and fill her up with 93.
And I've traveled to over half of the states in this country and the only two I remember off the top of my head not having 93 or 94 octane gas is Cali and Nevada. I just think your 75% figure is a little off. Its probably more like 25-35% only have 91 octane available as premium pump gas. Not everybody is from California and Maryland, you know. I personally would much rather see a tune with 93 to 94 octane than 91 octane, but then again I can drive down the street and fill her up with 93.
JRock,
I have actually explained this elsewhere and we should do something on our website with the Stage 1 vs. Stage 2 charts. The reason is we don't bull**** our customers.
Here is what happened. I picked the car up from the dealer, brought it here, converted it to 2wd and dyno'd it. I then went to work putting parts on the car, not the best approach by any means. I built a 3" downpipe, ran it into a 2.5" offroad pipe, then into a 2.5" cat back. I have explained before this is the WRONG way to do it. I then installed the boost controller, air filter and such. We did NOT have the AFC on the car when we finished the initial exhaust, filter and boost control prototypes. The AFC alone is worth a good 25+ whp.
By the time we added the other parts on the car for Stage 2 we had the AFC and a full 3" production exhaust on the car.
This will easily explain the big difference.
Our Stage 1 will make closer to 310-325 to the wheels while the Stage 2 will bring you up to the 343.
Hope this helps you understand. We need to re-dyno our car on Stage 1 so we can have a better number. OR we could do like other shops are and post some BS! haha
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I have actually explained this elsewhere and we should do something on our website with the Stage 1 vs. Stage 2 charts. The reason is we don't bull**** our customers.
Here is what happened. I picked the car up from the dealer, brought it here, converted it to 2wd and dyno'd it. I then went to work putting parts on the car, not the best approach by any means. I built a 3" downpipe, ran it into a 2.5" offroad pipe, then into a 2.5" cat back. I have explained before this is the WRONG way to do it. I then installed the boost controller, air filter and such. We did NOT have the AFC on the car when we finished the initial exhaust, filter and boost control prototypes. The AFC alone is worth a good 25+ whp.
By the time we added the other parts on the car for Stage 2 we had the AFC and a full 3" production exhaust on the car.
This will easily explain the big difference.
Our Stage 1 will make closer to 310-325 to the wheels while the Stage 2 will bring you up to the 343.
Hope this helps you understand. We need to re-dyno our car on Stage 1 so we can have a better number. OR we could do like other shops are and post some BS! haha
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally posted by davidbuschur
Good to see my comments were well taken.
Someone asked about road race cars we have been involved with or built. There have been many customers over the years. Nobody racing professionally. The guys that have come our way for help have been like most of you "road racers" that do open track days at the Corvetter, BMW or Porsche club events. Point was that we have done MANY of these cars and we have honestly never had anything we built blow up from the continued use. Hell, I just thought of a good example. Dan from Mach V left his car here a few years ago. We did a bunch of work to it for him, it is the white Talon you see in his ads. He road raced a bunch of track events with it, ended up selling it to an employee still in one piece a couple of years after having us do the car for him.
Alot of you don't know this but my father and I DROVE my 1991 AWD Talon (4g63 of course) from Ohio to Nevada NON STOP, never shutting the car off. We left after work one day to go and compete in the Silver State Classic. This is a 90 mile open road race from Hiko to Lund Nevada. We were one of the very few cars there that drove in and we were by far the one that drove the furthest. We ran the race, placed 3rd and then drove NON stop back. My dad got a ticket for 110 mph in Utah, he had been driving like that for hours.
Also, concerning the high boost and race gas used at the track. No doubt when we take one of our RACE cars to the track we do that. Hell 40 psi isn't unheard of, neither is 10,000 rpm and we run the highest octane fuel we can find. When we take the EVO though it is just as we advertise it is. You can look at our staged upgrades and see how the car was run on what gas and what boost. We COULD be lieing, this is true, fact is though if we were our parts sales would die off and so would we. You can't make claims of 12.4's on pump gas or 12.0's for that matter and then never have a single customer duplicate them. That is bad business and we aren't know for BS'ing. Al recently tuned one of our Stage 4 cars, the guy ran 11.9 at 119 mph. This is 2 more MPH than we have ever un in our own car. This says something.
Also there was a comment about someone needing a cat to compete in his class. We prefer to and try to sell every system that leaves here with a cat in it. The EPA is really cracking down on the entire "offroad" issue. We were actually recently investigated and I ended up hiring a lawyer to compile the information for us. We have great flowing 3" highflow cats for the EVo's.
Thanks again for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Good to see my comments were well taken.
Someone asked about road race cars we have been involved with or built. There have been many customers over the years. Nobody racing professionally. The guys that have come our way for help have been like most of you "road racers" that do open track days at the Corvetter, BMW or Porsche club events. Point was that we have done MANY of these cars and we have honestly never had anything we built blow up from the continued use. Hell, I just thought of a good example. Dan from Mach V left his car here a few years ago. We did a bunch of work to it for him, it is the white Talon you see in his ads. He road raced a bunch of track events with it, ended up selling it to an employee still in one piece a couple of years after having us do the car for him.
Alot of you don't know this but my father and I DROVE my 1991 AWD Talon (4g63 of course) from Ohio to Nevada NON STOP, never shutting the car off. We left after work one day to go and compete in the Silver State Classic. This is a 90 mile open road race from Hiko to Lund Nevada. We were one of the very few cars there that drove in and we were by far the one that drove the furthest. We ran the race, placed 3rd and then drove NON stop back. My dad got a ticket for 110 mph in Utah, he had been driving like that for hours.
Also, concerning the high boost and race gas used at the track. No doubt when we take one of our RACE cars to the track we do that. Hell 40 psi isn't unheard of, neither is 10,000 rpm and we run the highest octane fuel we can find. When we take the EVO though it is just as we advertise it is. You can look at our staged upgrades and see how the car was run on what gas and what boost. We COULD be lieing, this is true, fact is though if we were our parts sales would die off and so would we. You can't make claims of 12.4's on pump gas or 12.0's for that matter and then never have a single customer duplicate them. That is bad business and we aren't know for BS'ing. Al recently tuned one of our Stage 4 cars, the guy ran 11.9 at 119 mph. This is 2 more MPH than we have ever un in our own car. This says something.
Also there was a comment about someone needing a cat to compete in his class. We prefer to and try to sell every system that leaves here with a cat in it. The EPA is really cracking down on the entire "offroad" issue. We were actually recently investigated and I ended up hiring a lawyer to compile the information for us. We have great flowing 3" highflow cats for the EVo's.
Thanks again for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
do you do anything special to your engines to make them last under the conditions you described, i.e. apart from the usual methods everyone talks abotu when building up a 4G63?
Why I ask is that when all first built-up his Evo 8 and posted about it on Lancerregister (UK Evo board), they beat down on him pretty hard ,saying that he was talking BS, his numbers were wrong and his engine wouldn't last any length of time because it wasn't built by a "name brand tuner" and therefore wasn't built to take into account long term durability, US tuners don't know anyhting about Evo engines etc. They were getting pretty arrogant about it. I'm sorry someone you weren't there to defend Al at the time.
In Timeout
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 43
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From: Maryland
Originally posted by natedogg
25-35% only have 91 octane available as premium pump gas. Not everybody is from California and Maryland, you know.
25-35% only have 91 octane available as premium pump gas. Not everybody is from California and Maryland, you know.
all i put in my bird is sunoco 94
Just please remember everyone when looking at my dyno sheets - and the ones from BR also - - we keep the stock knock correction function 100% intact. Vishnu alters the knock signal which allows the tuner to run the car with less fuel and more timing without triggering the ecu to pull timing like mad
My own personal opinion is that the stock knock correction is a really good feature and we are able to make really decent gains while keeping it FULLY intact
Those Vishnu cheerleaders who talk about driving 100,000 miles on pump gas should think twice about the tuning methods Vishunu uses
There is plenty of power to be made keeping the stock knock function 100% intact
My own personal opinion is that the stock knock correction is a really good feature and we are able to make really decent gains while keeping it FULLY intact
Those Vishnu cheerleaders who talk about driving 100,000 miles on pump gas should think twice about the tuning methods Vishunu uses
There is plenty of power to be made keeping the stock knock function 100% intact
Originally posted by Turbo Weapon
Actually on marylands eastern shore we can get Sunoco 100 octane at the pump all i put in my bird is sunoco 94
Actually on marylands eastern shore we can get Sunoco 100 octane at the pump
all i put in my bird is sunoco 94
In Timeout
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 43
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From: Maryland
Originally posted by natedogg
I kinda figured that since most east coast states get good gas, but Jrock has his location set in Maryland so I figured he was having a hard time finding the good stuff over there. I actually run 100 oct from the pump in my Talon. 28 psi on a 50 trim is fun.
I kinda figured that since most east coast states get good gas, but Jrock has his location set in Maryland so I figured he was having a hard time finding the good stuff over there. I actually run 100 oct from the pump in my Talon. 28 psi on a 50 trim is fun.
[img]//www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/data/501/351motor_finished550x.JPG[/img]
Originally posted by Turbo Weapon
[B]
yeah i use to run my 50 trim at 25 psi on 94 the turbo is amazing on pump gas. i just recently switched to this
[B]
yeah i use to run my 50 trim at 25 psi on 94 the turbo is amazing on pump gas. i just recently switched to this
If I had some pics of my engine bay I'd post 'em, but I can tell you its not nearly as clean as yours. Otherwise its pretty close. Cept' I have a FRH intake manny, internal WG (external dump of course
) and my air cleaner eats from behind the passenger front wheel (where the stock sidemount would be). Oh, and I don't have that cool header setup you've got there. May have one soon though depending on some future dyno testing.
In Timeout
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 43
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From: Maryland
Originally posted by natedogg
NICE!!
my air cleaner eats from behind the passenger front wheel (where the stock sidemount would be).
NICE!!
my air cleaner eats from behind the passenger front wheel (where the stock sidemount would be).
Thread Starter
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally posted by DynoFlash
Just please remember everyone when looking at my dyno sheets - and the ones from BR also - - we keep the stock knock correction function 100% intact. Vishnu alters the knock signal which allows the tuner to run the car with less fuel and more timing without triggering the ecu to pull timing like mad
My own personal opinion is that the stock knock correction is a really good feature and we are able to make really decent gains while keeping it FULLY intact
Those Vishnu cheerleaders who talk about driving 100,000 miles on pump gas should think twice about the tuning methods Vishunu uses
There is plenty of power to be made keeping the stock knock function 100% intact
Just please remember everyone when looking at my dyno sheets - and the ones from BR also - - we keep the stock knock correction function 100% intact. Vishnu alters the knock signal which allows the tuner to run the car with less fuel and more timing without triggering the ecu to pull timing like mad
My own personal opinion is that the stock knock correction is a really good feature and we are able to make really decent gains while keeping it FULLY intact
Those Vishnu cheerleaders who talk about driving 100,000 miles on pump gas should think twice about the tuning methods Vishunu uses
There is plenty of power to be made keeping the stock knock function 100% intact
For you Al:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xflash.htm
shiv
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 502
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From: West
Originally posted by natedogg
I kinda figured that since most east coast states get good gas, but Jrock has his location set in Maryland so I figured he was having a hard time finding the good stuff over there. I actually run 100 oct from the pump in my Talon. 28 psi on a 50 trim is fun.
I kinda figured that since most east coast states get good gas, but Jrock has his location set in Maryland so I figured he was having a hard time finding the good stuff over there. I actually run 100 oct from the pump in my Talon. 28 psi on a 50 trim is fun.
So yeah it's not exactly easy to come by and I'm sure there are plenty of states where it's simply unavailable.