Short Runner T4 TS GTX3076R Experiment
most terrible way to make a ground ever. there is an amount of resistance associated with each physical interface and when you have a stack of ring terminals those resistances are all in series. 2 rings, maybe 3 if you want to push it, is the max you want to have under a bolt/nut.
you'd be better off attaching each ring to a bus bar with their own fasteners or splicing them together with crimp or solder splices leading to one ring.
not to mention that the size of the bolt and the torque required on the bolt to make an adequate ground path vary as a function of current flow. more current needs more surface area and more clamping load.
although the same principals apply for making power connections also.
you'd be better off attaching each ring to a bus bar with their own fasteners or splicing them together with crimp or solder splices leading to one ring.
not to mention that the size of the bolt and the torque required on the bolt to make an adequate ground path vary as a function of current flow. more current needs more surface area and more clamping load.
although the same principals apply for making power connections also.
Last edited by griceiv; Aug 24, 2012 at 01:43 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
There must be a category called 'super most terrible' because I have seen some shady wiring in my time.
Here are the pictures of the ILFR7H(stock) vs LFR6A-11(copper).
I also included some pics of the setup with wiring.
I drove the car with the copper plugs and the same issue exists. I did lower the dwell from 5ms to 2.4ms and noticed the car was much worse so it appears to be an issue with sufficient power to the coil. I am going to rework the wiring with the following changes.
1) Use the white/red factory +12V wire to trigger a relay so the coils are fed directly from the battery.
2) Change ground wiring from 'most terrible' to 'most awesome'
3) Position all coil signal wires away from plug wires.
4) Add suggested noise suppresion
Here are the pictures of the ILFR7H(stock) vs LFR6A-11(copper).
I also included some pics of the setup with wiring.
I drove the car with the copper plugs and the same issue exists. I did lower the dwell from 5ms to 2.4ms and noticed the car was much worse so it appears to be an issue with sufficient power to the coil. I am going to rework the wiring with the following changes.
1) Use the white/red factory +12V wire to trigger a relay so the coils are fed directly from the battery.
2) Change ground wiring from 'most terrible' to 'most awesome'
3) Position all coil signal wires away from plug wires.
4) Add suggested noise suppresion
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Aug 24, 2012 at 04:58 PM.
I don't think the valve cover has appropriate conductivity to the chassis ground to be hooking coils up to.
you've got rubber washers and valve cover gaskets nearly electrically isolating the valve cover from the rest of the engine. I bet picking a better grounding point will fix most of your issues.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
+1
I don't think the valve cover has appropriate conductivity to the chassis ground to be hooking coils up to.
you've got rubber washers and valve cover gaskets nearly electrically isolating the valve cover from the rest of the engine. I bet picking a better grounding point will fix most of your issues.
I don't think the valve cover has appropriate conductivity to the chassis ground to be hooking coils up to.
you've got rubber washers and valve cover gaskets nearly electrically isolating the valve cover from the rest of the engine. I bet picking a better grounding point will fix most of your issues.
I had a similar problem with my setup (LS1 Coils)
Turned out that i had an earth fault with one of my plugs, one of the wires was almost broken.
Have you got all of your setup right?
Did you confirm ignition angle with a timing light after you installed them?
Turned out that i had an earth fault with one of my plugs, one of the wires was almost broken.
Have you got all of your setup right?
Did you confirm ignition angle with a timing light after you installed them?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
I have not confirmed timing, but I don't think it would change. When I swap back the COP it works fine. I have the coils powered by the stock white/red wire so I suspect it is not getting sufficient power. I am going to try and check voltage while driving to see if I am sustaining 14V at the coil under load. If not, I will rig a hot wire to the battery to see if it resolves the issue.
You want to ground the coils to the head, not the battery. Keep the leads short and use a common junction point. Twisted wire between cylinder pairs isn't a bad idea either. Then you want to make sure the head is well grounded to the battery. The actual path on the high side is through the head, and not through the chassis so a solid connection to the head is most important. Making sure the head is well grounded to the chassis will help kill noise from the ignition event though.
Not sure 1uF is enough. Just pick up a typical suppressor used on the old DSMs and most other cars. FWIW, I don't think the noise suppressor is the issue, but it's simply a way to try and eliminate potential interference issues. I think the Haltec is pretty sensitive to noise.
Are you using resistive lead plug wires?
Are you daisy chaining the power wire from one coil to the next or did you split all four wires at a common point?
If all else fails, got access to an o-scope? Could be a signal issue and not a coil/plug issue.
Just a quick "plug" for COP, but the head basically creates a Faraday cage around the high voltage section to prevent noise when using COP. Some standalones can be VERY finicky with noise and this can be a big advantage.
Not sure 1uF is enough. Just pick up a typical suppressor used on the old DSMs and most other cars. FWIW, I don't think the noise suppressor is the issue, but it's simply a way to try and eliminate potential interference issues. I think the Haltec is pretty sensitive to noise.
Are you using resistive lead plug wires?
Are you daisy chaining the power wire from one coil to the next or did you split all four wires at a common point?
If all else fails, got access to an o-scope? Could be a signal issue and not a coil/plug issue.
Just a quick "plug" for COP, but the head basically creates a Faraday cage around the high voltage section to prevent noise when using COP. Some standalones can be VERY finicky with noise and this can be a big advantage.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Aug 25, 2012 at 09:22 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 40
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From: ENC
If it helps any, AEM's coil dwell wizard enters these settings for those coils
and this thread explains how the settings are used
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...c,20519.0.html
and this thread explains how the settings are used
http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...c,20519.0.html
I don't think we've seen a whole lot of results from either, to be honest. My personal opinion, the GT30 turbine wheel is choked by ~60 lb/min on the compressor side. Sure the wastegate will bypass more air, but you have to extract energy from the exhaust to drive the compressor and it seems like EBP skyrockets around this airflow level. Hence the reason the GTX3576R has shown 50HP gains on some tests over the GTX3076R, more exhaust flow...
If you count total blades, the Garrett has less...
Even if you count the short blades as 50% of the inertia of a tall blade the EFR has 10.5 blades compared to the 11 in the Garrett. I bet those half height blades are more than 50% of the inertia of a tall blade though. The majority of the inertia is coming from the blade tip areas, which those short blades act just like full height blades. I bet the Garrett's have a lower inertia...but we can call it a wash.
Agreed, the GTX wheels and the EFR wheels don't really line up on airflow. They are staggered, a GTX3X76R falls right between the EFR7670 and the EFR8374. The GTX3071R falls right between the EFR7064 and the EFR7670. I think one is going to spool better and the other is going to make more power in almost any fair comparison we will ever see
If you count total blades, the Garrett has less...
Even if you count the short blades as 50% of the inertia of a tall blade the EFR has 10.5 blades compared to the 11 in the Garrett. I bet those half height blades are more than 50% of the inertia of a tall blade though. The majority of the inertia is coming from the blade tip areas, which those short blades act just like full height blades. I bet the Garrett's have a lower inertia...but we can call it a wash.
Agreed, the GTX wheels and the EFR wheels don't really line up on airflow. They are staggered, a GTX3X76R falls right between the EFR7670 and the EFR8374. The GTX3071R falls right between the EFR7064 and the EFR7670. I think one is going to spool better and the other is going to make more power in almost any fair comparison we will ever see
what are the official lb/min flow rate of the GTX 3576??
I wonder how well these would work versus your current coils
http://www.aemelectronics.com/high-o...mart-coil-1240
They state 103mJ energy, that seems pretty high for a non CDI coil?
Cheers, Mike
http://www.aemelectronics.com/high-o...mart-coil-1240
They state 103mJ energy, that seems pretty high for a non CDI coil?
Cheers, Mike
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
You want to ground the coils to the head, not the battery. Keep the leads short and use a common junction point. Twisted wire between cylinder pairs isn't a bad idea either. Then you want to make sure the head is well grounded to the battery. The actual path on the high side is through the head, and not through the chassis so a solid connection to the head is most important. Making sure the head is well grounded to the chassis will help kill noise from the ignition event though.
Not sure 1uF is enough. Just pick up a typical suppressor used on the old DSMs and most other cars. FWIW, I don't think the noise suppressor is the issue, but it's simply a way to try and eliminate potential interference issues. I think the Haltec is pretty sensitive to noise.
Are you using resistive lead plug wires?
Are you daisy chaining the power wire from one coil to the next or did you split all four wires at a common point?
If all else fails, got access to an o-scope? Could be a signal issue and not a coil/plug issue.
Just a quick "plug" for COP, but the head basically creates a Faraday cage around the high voltage section to prevent noise when using COP. Some standalones can be VERY finicky with noise and this can be a big advantage.
Not sure 1uF is enough. Just pick up a typical suppressor used on the old DSMs and most other cars. FWIW, I don't think the noise suppressor is the issue, but it's simply a way to try and eliminate potential interference issues. I think the Haltec is pretty sensitive to noise.
Are you using resistive lead plug wires?
Are you daisy chaining the power wire from one coil to the next or did you split all four wires at a common point?
If all else fails, got access to an o-scope? Could be a signal issue and not a coil/plug issue.
Just a quick "plug" for COP, but the head basically creates a Faraday cage around the high voltage section to prevent noise when using COP. Some standalones can be VERY finicky with noise and this can be a big advantage.
- I am pulling power from the two white/red wires that feed the COP. Each power wire feeds two coils.
- Do you have a source for the suppressor used on the old DSMs