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Thank you for sharing this and I had not seen it prior. I assume in the article he meant to say the "post-filter tap" instead of 'pre-filter tap" was on the MIVEC feedline. The problem I would have in using the MIVEC line is that it runs to the MIVEC solenoid, which restricts flow based on cycling the solenoid to very intake cam timing. Maybe that pressure is the same as all other post filter pressure readings, but I don't know. The article would suggest the ER gear generating 85psi at 8K RPM might be too little since their data shows 112psi at 8K RPM.
I did like the HLA article because it show that it increases oil pressure by ~25psi. I run the stock unit, but I have an HLA somewhere if I can find it so I might just add that back and see what it does.
I did like the HLA article because it show that it increases oil pressure by ~25psi. I run the stock unit, but I have an HLA somewhere if I can find it so I might just add that back and see what it does.
After a long search I found the HLA in the bottom of a box that I use to store extra exhaust bends. I took about 40 minutes and installed the HLA to replace the factory unit. What I see is ~1-2psi increase at idle and a ~5psi increase on the topend with pressure holding 85psi at redline.
In the process of removing the valve cover I had to removed the heat shield and noticed the header has 2 cracks, which one is actively seeping exhaust. The motor clearly generates a lot of heat and the likely issue is the fact I daily drive the car and the manifolds that have cracked don't have expansion joints. I spoke with Morrison Fabrications regarding making a manifold so that may be a path I take long term, but lead times for the manifold are ~4 months worst case. I've made many manifolds in my life and most of them were all 0.65" 321 and none of those ever cracked that I know of, but they all used slip joints. Essentially, I would need to solid mount 1 runner to the merge collector and the other 3 runners would need have a slip joint, which can also be done with thick walled manifolds. If you look at the short runner twinscroll manifold I made in 2011, it utilizes a slip joint off the first runner to reduce stress associated with heat expansion. I ran this manifold for about 4 years and it is still sitting on the shelf ready to go with a Gen I GTX3582r.
My plan is this, check with my turbo guy to see if he has a GTX3584rs on the shelf and send him my 1.06 AR T4 TS turbine housing and have him cut it for the slightly larger wheel. Run my short runner twinscroll manifold, but go with open gates so I would need to fabricate a new downpipe and wastegate dumps. If the setup does not make 600hp@wheels on 93pump then I will commission Morrison Fabrications to make his small runner S362 T4 TS manifold, but see if he will add in 2-3 slip joints. Below were the results of the Gen I GTX3582r using Shell 93 octane on my current motor with recirculating gates and running a 100cell high flow cat.
I know it is somewhat of a risk to run this turbo because there is not a lot of data out there, but I did find one good comparison on a Suby. This compared the same Gen 1 GTX3582r vs the GTX3584rs using the same setup and same a/r and the results show almost identical power curves, but the GTX3584rs making more topend power. It won't let me link Facebook stuff so I copied the text and the picture below.
Had Phillip's AWDTuning built 2015 STi back on the dyno last week for a turbo upgrade.... because apparently 650whp in his daily wasn't enough lol
Mods include, AWDTuning Stage4 built EJ257 with IAG closed deck cases, Manley HD Pistons, Manley Turbo Tuff rods w/625 rod bolts, Manley Billet Crank, King bearings, 1/2in headstuds, Kelford 280 cams and upgraded springs, Supertech +1mm valves, JE headgaskets, Cosworth Intake Manifold, Extreme Turbo Systems turbo kit w/ GTX3584rs 1.03ar turbo, Fuel Injector Clinic 2150cc injectors, Process West dual Walbro 450 Anti-Surge Fuel System, IAG fuel rails w/custom lines, IAG TGV deletes, ETS FMIC w/ 4in core, Tial BOV, and Killer B relocation tube, ETS headers, IAG Competition AOS, Killer B Pick-up tube, Baffle and Oil Pan, Competition twin disk clutch, Driveshaft shop carbon fiber driveshaft, ATI Super Harmonic Damper, Invidia N1 exhaust, Cobb BCS and Cobb Flex Fuel kit.
Last time Phillip was on the dyno he had this exact same set-up but with the GTX3582r turbo.
The GTX3852r Gen1 was a 62mm turbo w/ 1.03ar and made 650whp/540wtq at 36psi on E80.
But the new GTX3584rs Gen2 is a 67mm turbo w/1.03ar and made 768whp/585wtq at 40psi.
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Sep 9, 2020 at 09:13 AM.
Was that manifold properly backpurged? In my experience, the difference in longevity is pretty huge between a manifold that was properly backpurged and one that is welded without it. I'm assuming the sugaring creates a myriad of street risers and concentrated hot spots, which leads to cracking. That's a bummer though. The 3584rs is a pretty cool turbo.
Was that manifold properly backpurged? In my experience, the difference in longevity is pretty huge between a manifold that was properly backpurged and one that is welded without it. I'm assuming the sugaring creates a myriad of street risers and concentrated hot spots, which leads to cracking. That's a bummer though. The 3584rs is a pretty cool turbo.
I have always utilized Solar Flux B as opposed to back purging and as long as you keep the heat in check it does a very good job of keeping the backside from oxidizing. The 321SS manifold that I made for the S362 used Solar Flux B (except the collector was back purged) and I believe the new 304SS manifold for the S366 was back purged. The crack that is seeping exhaust is on the #2 runner and is not on the weld, but in the pipe itself just past the weld where it attaches to the flange. The header will move around when it sees 1600+ F temps so if you have thermal expansion in opposing directions without slip fittings it will eventually crack so lesson learned for me with this thick walled stuff. All the headers I made 15+ years ago with 16G 321 SS used slip joints and several of them are running to this day with no issues and used Solar Flux B.
My turbo guy said he has a GTX3584rs in stock so i will ship my turbine housing tomorrow and have it cut for the slightly larger turbine wheel vs the standard 35r wheel. He said it is about 0.5mm larger so you have to re contour the housing for it to work.
Before all of this crap I started a new project called "Lean AFR Cruise 15.2:1 using stock ECU." My PLX wideband has been giving me grief lately as it will just randomly cut off and because I use the 0-1v analog output for my narrowband input to the ECU it throws a code and doesn't allow my car to trim when off boost. I have been wanting to lean cruise with the factory ECU and knew of a way, but just didn't want to spend the money or effort until now. Below is picture of my current PLX setup....
With the stock ECU, it trims based on the output voltage of ~0.5V using a narrowband o2 sensor (0-1V) with ~0.5V corresponding to 14.7:1. In order to lean cruise you have to generate your own output function that allows you to have whatever AFR you want give an output voltage of ~0.5V. Enter the Innovative Motorsports LC-2! I ordered one last week and it showed up Monday. https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php
This allows me to program the output voltage corresponding to whatever AFR I want for both the wideband and narrowband analog outputs. Therefore, all I need to do is tell the LC-2 that I want 15.2:1 AFR to output a voltage of 0.5V and then I feed this into the factory front O2 Sensor input to the ECU and BAMMMM, 15.2:1 lean cruise. I ran these AFR's when I used the Haltech and it worked well to increase gas mileage when combined with optimizing ignition timing and intake cam timing. I'll post more once I get it hooked up, which is hopefully within the next week. Below is the example they provided for the programmable 0-5V analog output, but you can also program the 0-1.1V analog output just the same.
My turbo guy said he has a GTX3584rs in stock so i will ship my turbine housing tomorrow and have it cut for the slightly larger turbine wheel vs the standard 35r wheel. He said it is about 0.5mm larger so you have to re contour the housing for it to work.
Temporary change of plans. I am going to repair the header because the issue is likely related to my transmission mounts. I run the Megan Racing 70a durometer rear mount and a custom front mount that is very stiff, but the 2 side mounts are the original factory units. We suspect the sloppy side mounts are causing too much engine movement and putting excessive stress on the header, which is likely why both cracked within a matter of a few months. I ordered the Torque Solutions 75a durometer side engine mount inserts today and will replace them along with sending the header in for repair.
I am likely also going to switch back to the S362 SXE (6268) to slightly reduce the torque output and gain back the 500rpm in lost spool vs the S366 SXE (6668). The S362 SXE made 600@wheels with recirculating gates running through a 100CEL cat so with open gates and no CAT it should make about 625hp at wheels, which is plenty.
Last edited by 240Z TwinTurbo; Sep 11, 2020 at 12:55 PM.
As fate would have it, a Morrison Fabrications manifold for the S362 came available and I purchased it along with the turbine housing, wastegate dumps, midpipe, and downpipe. The manifold is actually the one from the Morrison Fabrications website when they compared the large runner vs small runner and the one I purchased in is the small runner. I mocked up the header with turbine housing just to see how it fit in my setup. The manifold situates the turbo so you can run the stock front cross member so I ditched the very rigid mount I custom made and put back the stock motor mount with the 75d inserts. I also replaced both OEM side mounts with the Torque Solutions 75d inserts. I'm hoping this will isolate the engine movement that was likely contributing to the cracked headers.
The MPFab manifold is being shipped back and he is going to try and repair the manifold since this is the first time this has happened. The other thing to note is the turbine housing that came with this kit is the 0.91ar vs the 1.00ar I had been running. Unfortunately, my 1.00ar turbine housing has a male vband welded to it so I can just swap it in/out without making a fresh downpipe with a female vband flange. Therefore, as of now I am going to initially run the 0.91ar turbine housing with my setup. You can see from the picture below the setup also came with a 3" downpipe/midpipe and open wastegate dumps. I went ahead and ordered a 3" slip bellow and an O2 bung for the wideband should I choose to run this downpipe. I also order a 3" 2-bolt flange and 3" to 3.5" transition in case I want to tie in this 3" downpipe to my 3.5" cat back exhaust.
I am struggling with whether I should run the 3" midpipe or tie in the downpipe to my current 3.5" midpipe. To tie into my current 3.5" midpipe I just cut the pipe off the turbo after it 90's to the ground and then weld in the 3" to 3.5" transition. I know from a performance standpoint this is the best path, but part if me wants to make this car a little less extreme for a daily driver.
Dont get me wrong but, crossmember or not, that dp should have one or two flex joints. That should greatly reduce the stress on the manifold..
Agreed, which is why I ordered a 3" slip bellow that will arrive today. I will place the slip bellow on the midpipe just below the oil pan similar to my current 3.5" midpipe.
Have you found the external oil relief mods to make much difference?
I did the mod because my oil pump was taking a dump, which I assumed was potentially related to oil starvation under hard acceleration. Hard to measure a "difference" since the intent was to force as much oil to the front of the pan for straight line acceleration, which can only be achieved with this type of mod or that $1500 billet oil pump. The pressure still spikes and then settles, but seems to hold pressure just fine. The pan recently started leaking at the block after several thousand miles so I pulled the pan and resealed. So I could provide a more meaningful update.
The motor clearly generates a lot of heat and the likely issue is the fact I daily drive the car and the manifolds that have cracked don't have expansion joints. I spoke with Morrison Fabrications regarding making a manifold so that may be a path I take long term, but lead times for the manifold are ~4 months worst case. I've made many manifolds in my life and most of them were all 0.65" 321 and none of those ever cracked that I know of, but they all used slip joints. Essentially, I would need to solid mount 1 runner to the merge collector and the other 3 runners would need have a slip joint, which can also be done with thick walled manifolds. If you look at the short runner twinscroll manifold I made in 2011, it utilizes a slip joint off the first runner to reduce stress associated with heat expansion. I ran this manifold for about 4 years and it is still sitting on the shelf ready to go with a Gen I GTX3582r.
