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I am encountering a problem that I cannot figure out.
2006 Evo 9 with a fresh rebuild top to bottom - 0 miles and no run time.
The head is machined by a reputable local shop, GSC valves, guides, beehive springs and titanium retainers. GSC zero tick lifters, all new. Kiggly HLA (new) if that matters. Had a set of Kelford 272 on there that I kept. Only used part on the head.
when I go for the first startup I suffer catastrophic failure. I tossed 4 rockers, all on the exhaust side - 3,4,6 and 7. Dug into the cams on two lobes a little but wasn’t anything to write home about.
I took the head out and took it to a different shop I trust due to some time constraints for a move. All 16 valves were shot a couple guides needed replacing. Got the work done, packed up the car and moved across the country.
fot settled in, assemble the car, prime the engine with oil and all is well. Go for first startup and nothing. I check compression and run 0-0-0-0. Pull the valve cover and see I have tossed rockers 2,4 and 8 on the exhaust side.
Both times, timing was set perfect - first time whole job was done out of the car and rotated a good couple dozen times since I didn’t want to have a timing issue… second time was done in car but confirmed timing was on as well.
the lifters on those three valves could be depressed by hand whereas the others feel solid.
Does anyone have any idea what the hell is going on here?
I have never encountered something like this and sure as hell not twice. I don’t like getting machine work done repeatedly and don’t want to have my head worked over a 3rd time if I can’t figure this out and definitely don’t want to shell out for another set of cams until I get this sorted.
Did you bleed the lifters? That will throw rockers if not done right. How about your timing stuff? Was all the timing stuff all new? Idk I have never done a mivec head but did you make sure everything was lined up at the proper marks. Wacking 16 valves is the true sign of inproper timing. I know the Mivec and the non mivec are different when you time them.
Did you bleed the lifters? That will throw rockers if not done right. How about your timing stuff? Was all the timing stuff all new? Idk I have never done a mivec head but did you make sure everything was lined up at the proper marks. Wacking 16 valves is the true sign of inproper timing. I know the Mivec and the non mivec are different when you time them.
I did bleed the lifters but since those three were soft it’s possible I failed to do that correctly.
Everything but the cams were replaced for the build.
The first time around it was all timed outside of the car and since I just spent a small fortune on the motor I wanted to make sure it was right. Hell, I even primed the engine out of the car.
This just has me thinking it’s the lifters and I messed that up during the bleed.
I did bleed the lifters but since those three were soft it’s possible I failed to do that correctly.
Everything but the cams were replaced for the build.
The first time around it was all timed outside of the car and since I just spent a small fortune on the motor I wanted to make sure it was right. Hell, I even primed the engine out of the car.
This just has me thinking it’s the lifters and I messed that up during the bleed.
It is really hard to say not being there to inspect your work. I am sure you did them correctly but maybe not bled down fully. Idk tough to say and I really feel bad being I know it is frustrating. But in my experience with these cars thats usually the case
Lifters should be installed fully bled down/soft.
Make sure the valve tip has enough protrusion past the locks/retainer and the rockers aren't resting on the retainer.
Mitsubishi manual states to install the lash adjusters cleaned and filled with diesel, is this incorrect?
Or is it correct and just not recommended?
Mitsubishi manual states to install the lash adjusters cleaned and filled with diesel, is this incorrect?
Or is it correct and just not recommended?
I find that causes them to tick. I install them fully bled down.
They take about 7-10 seconds to pump up and stop clattering on a fresh motor. Quicker if it's just a cam install. You can always prime the oil system before start up to get oil in them.
Also of note, if they're installed pumped up and incompressible. They're not longer adjusting lash. They're just a solid state fulcrum for the rocker. Installing them filled and incompressible doesn't make sense.
Last edited by LetsGetThisDone; Feb 19, 2023 at 05:14 PM.
i always cleaned them up real good, primed, and thern let them sit in a tub of fresh oil overnight then install right away, when you start the engine if they tick just the hold the rpms at about 2500 and the oil pressure will push the air out pretty quick,. dont be shy with the assembly lube either. last thing you wanna do is let it idle and wait for ticking to dissipate, imo it takes a hell of a lot longer and just cause mores scoring then racing the engine. plus ive found many different repair manuals refer to this method with hydraulic lifters
I find that causes them to tick. I install them fully bled down.
They take about 7-10 seconds to pump up and stop clattering on a fresh motor. Quicker if it's just a cam install. You can always prime the oil system before start up to get oil in them.
Also of note, if they're installed pumped up and incompressible. They're not longer adjusting lash. They're just a solid state fulcrum for the rocker. Installing them filled and incompressible doesn't make sense.
When you install a pumped up lifter, it will eventually bleed down to the camshaft base circle size/height.
That's the whole point of a lash adjuster. If they didn't bleed to the correct height, they wouldn't do anything.
I'm guessing that's why Mitsubishi says to use Diesel fuel, it's very thin and will allow them to bleed/adjust to the correct height quicker than using oil.
Example: if you run an aggressive ignition based cut, it's common for the lifter to pump up because the exhaust valve has been blown open with exhaust manifold pressure (EMAP). The lash adjuster is doing it's job and taking up slack in the system. This causes a "miss" for a short period of time until the lifter bleeds back to it's "normal" position.
Feb 17, 2023, 07:26 PM
