Mustang is better than EVO???
Originally Posted by astrocreep96
Steiner: I see why you're upset about me bashing the GTO...you're an owner. I piddy da' foo!! (or something like that).
Anyway, you were asking what my problems are with the GTO, and I will tell you.
First, let me state that although I find the GTO name ridiculous, and the styling doesn't strike me on a personal level, I will admit that these are subjective opinions and don't have any influence on the performance. So I will leave that part alone.
On to the perfromance factor. I think that any 400hp car should be in the 12s straight from the showroom floor, with plastic still on the seats and the factory tires on. GM was able to do it to the C6, so why not the GTO? The '04 model year GTO had the 350hp LS1, and it barely does 13s. Again, GM was able to get the convertible (i.e. heavy) C5 to almost a 13 flat with that engine, as well as the T/A and Camaro, so I see no reason why the GTO shouldn't be there as well.
When I look at the performance numbers, I expect to see a damned fast car. But this is not the case with the GTO, unfortunately. I think this is because production was rushed to get this thing over from Australia. A few examples of the rushed production: the reverse orientation of the stereo, the "dual" exhaust (which as far as I know is not even a true dual, I think the headers are eventually joined and one pipe leads to the muffler, then two pipes out to make it look like a "dual" coming out of one side), the welded steel and forged iron suspension components.
In the end, I think the GTO is a crappy car for what it was endowed with from GM, it really should be doing more. Also, I think people buy it and like it because they are impressed with the numbers on paper. 350 - 400 hp, 6 speed manual, rwd. It sounds like a good car on paper, but it just doesn't deliver.
Anyway, you were asking what my problems are with the GTO, and I will tell you.
First, let me state that although I find the GTO name ridiculous, and the styling doesn't strike me on a personal level, I will admit that these are subjective opinions and don't have any influence on the performance. So I will leave that part alone.
On to the perfromance factor. I think that any 400hp car should be in the 12s straight from the showroom floor, with plastic still on the seats and the factory tires on. GM was able to do it to the C6, so why not the GTO? The '04 model year GTO had the 350hp LS1, and it barely does 13s. Again, GM was able to get the convertible (i.e. heavy) C5 to almost a 13 flat with that engine, as well as the T/A and Camaro, so I see no reason why the GTO shouldn't be there as well.
When I look at the performance numbers, I expect to see a damned fast car. But this is not the case with the GTO, unfortunately. I think this is because production was rushed to get this thing over from Australia. A few examples of the rushed production: the reverse orientation of the stereo, the "dual" exhaust (which as far as I know is not even a true dual, I think the headers are eventually joined and one pipe leads to the muffler, then two pipes out to make it look like a "dual" coming out of one side), the welded steel and forged iron suspension components.
In the end, I think the GTO is a crappy car for what it was endowed with from GM, it really should be doing more. Also, I think people buy it and like it because they are impressed with the numbers on paper. 350 - 400 hp, 6 speed manual, rwd. It sounds like a good car on paper, but it just doesn't deliver.
Anyways...your self imposed "400hp & 12 second 1/4 miles" standard is the most simplistic tripe I've ever heard. And to top it off, you justify it by a straight comparison to a Corvette line that costs nearly twice as much and is constructed of fiberglass. It's like comparing your Evo VIII to an FQ400. It's apples to oranges.
If you wanna compare the GTO to another car how about a Mustang or a (now defunct) F-body Camaro or Trans Am. The latter two were similair in price and similair in performance. Then GM released the Camaro SS and Trans Am WS6 with the LS1. Well low and behold Pontiac did the same thing by bumping up the performance on the '05 GTO with an LS2...only took them a year though. Try to have a little more perspective. If you wanna hate a car, hate mine. It's easy to do and lots of people already do. It's an SRT-4. But I'm sorta confused why you're so hell bent on relegating the name of the modern GTO to something reminiscent of the Mustang II or Plymouth Duster.
BTW...the '04 GTO has a single twin tip exhaust outlet. I don't believe it's a true dual. The '05 model however has a true dual...2 seperate manifolds feeding 2 seperate housings feeding two seperate mufflers exiting in 2 chrome tips on the back of the car. The car also has IRS, big brakes and stiffer sway bars for '05. You need to take a ride in one. You may change your opinion.
Originally Posted by Steiner
. You need to take a ride in one. You may change your opinion.
Nope they never will cuz it's not an EVO.. If its not an EVO it cant be good .... thats how alot of em think!
As for the most hated car, thats due to the inexpensiveness of the car attracting every 16 year old in the world. They think its the fastest thing since rocket ships!
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
Originally Posted by Steiner
Anyways...your self imposed "400hp & 12 second 1/4 miles" standard is the most simplistic tripe I've ever heard. And to top it off, you justify it by a straight comparison to a Corvette line that costs nearly twice as much and is constructed of fiberglass. It's like comparing your Evo VIII to an FQ400. It's apples to oranges.
And fine, if you don't like the Corvette comparison, what about the '04 Mach 1 Mustang? It has approximately 310 hp from an aluminum 4.6 liter V8, and it runs very low 13s, which is about as fast as the 400hp GTO. If GM can't knock off a few 10ths with 90 extra hp, boo on them.
If you wanna hate a car, hate mine. It's easy to do and lots of people already do. It's an SRT-4.
BTW...the '04 GTO has a single twin tip exhaust outlet. I don't believe it's a true dual. The '05 model however has a true dual...2 seperate manifolds feeding 2 seperate housings feeding two seperate mufflers exiting in 2 chrome tips on the back of the car. The car also has IRS, big brakes and stiffer sway bars for '05. You need to take a ride in one. You may change your opinion.
The car also has IRS, big brakes and stiffer sway bars for '05. You need to take a ride in one. You may change your opinion.
Originally Posted by BADEVO
Nope they never will cuz it's not an EVO.. If its not an EVO it cant be good .... thats how alot of em think!
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by Steiner
BTW...the '04 GTO has a single twin tip exhaust outlet. I don't believe it's a true dual. The '05 model however has a true dual...2 seperate manifolds feeding 2 seperate housings feeding two seperate mufflers exiting in 2 chrome tips on the back of the car. The car also has IRS, big brakes and stiffer sway bars for '05. You need to take a ride in one. You may change your opinion.
And again for you guys comparing the MR vs the Mustang GT give me a break,over 10 thousand dollar difference. Not even in the same category or market. I myself and trying to decide wether to buy a Used 03 EVO(can pick one up for around 22-23k now), Used STi(trying to find a stock one for a good price-giving up hope), 03-04 Cobra(Same price range as the AWD duo, but have to get a beater again) And new mustang GT. Why not car with full warranty for the same money and better looks.
Like someone else said why can't you be a fan of all cars? As am I. Not bias one way or another. Although I may be bias toward the STi, I like the used evo prices better.
Just my .02
I just took a ride in an 05' GT Mustang and I wasn't impressed with the power at all. It didn't throw me in the seat like good american muscle. I was impressed by how smooth it was and how well it handled. I still wouldn't trade it for an evo. My car throws my a** thru the seat. This thing behaved like a luxury car.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 151
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this is all i can say, 4G63 is the best motor out of these cars in this stupid argument hands down. domestic guys should be ashamed of them selves. being out done by something half the size lol. you can have your mass produced v8 pigs with the tightest half inch tolerances built right in. im so tierd of taking **** from ignorant azz domestic guys that clame there displacment will solve all. ill say it straight up, your clame to fame 1/4 mile is being taken from you slowly but shurely, your na v8 takes a tremendouse amount of money to get those big hp numbers reliably, and the rest of the domestic car around that v8 is crap. live with it boyz thats just the way it is. i had a mustang and it couldnt even come close to the evo stock. then when you start moding the car omg what a waste. your only option is to have a super charger droped in. to do that you need to tare the engine down and have it forged in order to hold any boost higher than 8 psi for more than a day.so how much does that cost domestic boy?6K?10K?how fast will the 4G63 go for that much you ask? alot faster than you period.
sorry about the rant but i hear this crap all day and im fed up.
sorry about the rant but i hear this crap all day and im fed up.
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