Well... we dyno'd it :)
OK so after all of this dynoing...who is right? Also please see my thead about times https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=16132 I am curious to see real world times
In Timeout
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 40
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From: Bay Area, CA
Originally posted by Daveyd
OK so after all of this dynoing...who is right? Also please see my thead about times https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=16132 I am curious to see real world times
OK so after all of this dynoing...who is right? Also please see my thead about times https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=16132 I am curious to see real world times
--bobby
btw, BADWRX.. check your f-ing pm box..
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6
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From: Des Moines
dissapointed but I was expecting 180 - 190 to the wheels. Also, with 19psi on the street there is no way evo will be getting good timing with 91 octane and 560cc injectors. The fact the ECU is picky, this EVO will be hard to get power out of... I will wait for 2005 model to see if they make any changes...
The DynoJet and DynoDynamics systems are completely different dynos, so I wouldn't compare them in any way. I think we just need to wait for some more dyno testing from Shiv and some hard numbers on the 1/4 mile track to get an idea.
Mark
Mark
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 129
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From: Danville Ca
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
You might want to talk to your spies
The EVOs didn't make anything close to the 220 wheel hp you guessed. That's more like what we saw with the pinging EVO VII import we dyno'd a few months back.
The three US EVO VIIIs we've tested (under nearly identical conditions) put down right around 180 wheel hp. That's only ~20 more wheel hp than a stock WRX. Hence my concern about the 271hp rating. Thes dyno figures would suggest closer to 255hp, IMHO.
A few interesting findings:
Peak hp occurs around 5500rpm, not the claimed 6500rpm. Peak torque is right around 4000rpm.
One of the three cars we tested ran 2psi less boost (17 tapering to 15 vs. 19 tapering to 17) than the others. It had a one month earlier build date (1/03 vs. 2/03), FWIW. It ended up making the same power as the other two higher boosting EVOs but with slightly less torque in the low end and midrange.
Our EVO VIII, for some reason, only has a 1bar MAP sensor. Strange seeing it in a turbo car that runs 19psi of boost. I would expect nothing less than a 3bar unit for the car. With the 1 bar MAP sensor, it maxs out (reads a full 5v) at 0psi of boost. Bizarre and pretty useless, as far as I can see. While I didn't check the other cars we tested, I suspect they are similarly equipped.
The car is especially knock prone at certain engine speeds. At least it is on the lovely 91 octane gas we run in CA.
The car runs a frequency-based MAF sensor. Not the usual 0-5v types seen on most other cars.
The car is under-advanced above 5500rpm. Adding just 1-2 degrees of timing at high rpm bumped hp by over 10 wheel hp without any detectible knock.
The EVO VIII's factory ECU is a bit more sophisticated that the older EVOs which had no type of active knock correction or smart ignition learning capabilities. Even the processor on the board is bigger These new ECU smarts will present more complications on the tuning end. But that's what we do so we consider it a challenge.
The EVO, like the WRX, is suseptible to MAF misreadings through intake modifications. We measured some pretty wild MAF errors when trying out different intake configurations.
There's a lot more info we've dug up during our tune-a-thon. Some of it we'd like to keep to ourselves for now and some we'll elaborate on on our website (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer.htm). There's nothing there right now but a pretty picture. Give us a couple of days and it'll start filling out. It's past midnight and we just came back from our first test drive of our mildly tuned EVO Lots more info to come....
Cheers,
Shiv
www.vishnutuning.com
PS. As mentioned earlier, all testing on all EVOs were done on 91 octane gas. I did test our car with slightly higher octane (by mixing in a couple of gallons of 100 octane) and found significant gains (6-9 more wheel hp). But still shy, IMHO, of the factory's claim. I think the car's short gearing, great turbo response, and strong midrange torque make it feel quite a bit more powerful than it really is. Still an awesome car. And it's bound to get only better as we get a handle on how to make more power safely.
PSS. Also, keep in mind that these numbers are from our Dyno Dynamics dyno which, while arguably more accurate, reads more conservatively (lower) than Dynopacks and Dynojets. While it's the best dyno for tuning, it's not the best "big number generator" that some people like
You might want to talk to your spies
The EVOs didn't make anything close to the 220 wheel hp you guessed. That's more like what we saw with the pinging EVO VII import we dyno'd a few months back. The three US EVO VIIIs we've tested (under nearly identical conditions) put down right around 180 wheel hp. That's only ~20 more wheel hp than a stock WRX. Hence my concern about the 271hp rating. Thes dyno figures would suggest closer to 255hp, IMHO.
A few interesting findings:
Peak hp occurs around 5500rpm, not the claimed 6500rpm. Peak torque is right around 4000rpm.
One of the three cars we tested ran 2psi less boost (17 tapering to 15 vs. 19 tapering to 17) than the others. It had a one month earlier build date (1/03 vs. 2/03), FWIW. It ended up making the same power as the other two higher boosting EVOs but with slightly less torque in the low end and midrange.
Our EVO VIII, for some reason, only has a 1bar MAP sensor. Strange seeing it in a turbo car that runs 19psi of boost. I would expect nothing less than a 3bar unit for the car. With the 1 bar MAP sensor, it maxs out (reads a full 5v) at 0psi of boost. Bizarre and pretty useless, as far as I can see. While I didn't check the other cars we tested, I suspect they are similarly equipped.
The car is especially knock prone at certain engine speeds. At least it is on the lovely 91 octane gas we run in CA.
The car runs a frequency-based MAF sensor. Not the usual 0-5v types seen on most other cars.
The car is under-advanced above 5500rpm. Adding just 1-2 degrees of timing at high rpm bumped hp by over 10 wheel hp without any detectible knock.
The EVO VIII's factory ECU is a bit more sophisticated that the older EVOs which had no type of active knock correction or smart ignition learning capabilities. Even the processor on the board is bigger
These new ECU smarts will present more complications on the tuning end. But that's what we do so we consider it a challenge.The EVO, like the WRX, is suseptible to MAF misreadings through intake modifications. We measured some pretty wild MAF errors when trying out different intake configurations.
There's a lot more info we've dug up during our tune-a-thon. Some of it we'd like to keep to ourselves for now and some we'll elaborate on on our website (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer.htm). There's nothing there right now but a pretty picture. Give us a couple of days and it'll start filling out. It's past midnight and we just came back from our first test drive of our mildly tuned EVO
Lots more info to come....Cheers,
Shiv
www.vishnutuning.com
PS. As mentioned earlier, all testing on all EVOs were done on 91 octane gas. I did test our car with slightly higher octane (by mixing in a couple of gallons of 100 octane) and found significant gains (6-9 more wheel hp). But still shy, IMHO, of the factory's claim. I think the car's short gearing, great turbo response, and strong midrange torque make it feel quite a bit more powerful than it really is. Still an awesome car. And it's bound to get only better as we get a handle on how to make more power safely.
PSS. Also, keep in mind that these numbers are from our Dyno Dynamics dyno which, while arguably more accurate, reads more conservatively (lower) than Dynopacks and Dynojets. While it's the best dyno for tuning, it's not the best "big number generator" that some people like
Stupid spys
but so the 220hp is more like the hp after you guys tweak it It sounds like the torque curve is "relatively" flat, which is great. I like the fact that you guys are able to extract more hp relatively easily by taking care of the details
The low hp number doesnt' bother me. It's still a fast enough car and sounds like it can be made faster
said after getting back to you. 
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 167
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I believe the Neons were dyno'd on a dynojet...
And again you need to look at real world track numbers and not a dyno hp reading.
the EVO should be getting around 200hp on the dyno dynamics, comparably to a WRX.
Where did the 20 hp go?
And again you need to look at real world track numbers and not a dyno hp reading.
the EVO should be getting around 200hp on the dyno dynamics, comparably to a WRX.
Where did the 20 hp go?
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 37
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Originally posted by SRD
I believe the Neons were dyno'd on a dynojet...
And again you need to look at real world track numbers and not a dyno hp reading.
the EVO should be getting around 200hp on the dyno dynamics, comparably to a WRX.
Where did the 20 hp go?
I believe the Neons were dyno'd on a dynojet...
And again you need to look at real world track numbers and not a dyno hp reading.
the EVO should be getting around 200hp on the dyno dynamics, comparably to a WRX.
Where did the 20 hp go?
Well even with 200hp the Neon is still going to have 20hp on me and I am sure the Neon is at least 300lb lighter.
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 102
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From: san jose, ca
the neon only drives the front wheels, has no lsd, and if your a good driver you have nothing to worry about. but to really find the better car, take him out to the track or autocross. i say your just too paranoid.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 37
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Originally posted by fishsauce
the neon only drives the front wheels, has no lsd, and if your a good driver you have nothing to worry about. but to really find the better car, take him out to the track or autocross. i say your just too paranoid.
the neon only drives the front wheels, has no lsd, and if your a good driver you have nothing to worry about. but to really find the better car, take him out to the track or autocross. i say your just too paranoid.
I just got some number of the WRX web site. Please have in mind that a WRX can be purchased for almost 10,000 dollars less than a EVO and yes the EVO is a better car but hey $10k is $10k
posted 11 March 2003 10:13 AM
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Ok, you don't have to twist my arm:
Depending on the dyno you use...
AWD Dyno Dynamics says about 162whp
AWD Dynapack says about 175whp
AWD Mustang says about 180whp
AWD Dynojet says about 190whp
P.S. Add what Josh said about calibration, altitude, weather, etc