Modded Evo 8: What will it take to beat GT3s and C6 Z06s on the race track?
Mar 29, 2006, 12:17 PM
#17
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is not the power that will give u the problem, is their better chassis and stiffer frame that make them hard to beat around the track. unless u run a lot wider tires. is going to be a uphill battle. the evo will not be a daily driving car anymore if u want to mod to complete with those car. best of luck.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:17 PM
#18
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If you looking into the fastest quicked evo, may sure you get the RS!!! I think it's the best if you're trying to make a track monster. keep us updated.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 05 MR
You've got some lofty goals. My overall opinion is that modifying an Evo to run faster lap times than a C6 Z06 will cost more than buying a C6 Z06 to begin with (unless you do all the labor yourself). In stock form (with Toyo RA-1’s), my 05 MR can hang with C5 Z06's, but modifying up an Evo to be competitive with the new Vette will lead to some reliability issue. Clearly you realize this already. I think the Evo of your dreams will be so high strung that daily use/driving comfort and long-term reliability are out the window. If you look closely, this makes perfect sense, as getting 500Whp from a 2.0 Turbo is a tall order (certainly not impossible though). In contrast, a 7.0 V8 with standard dry sump lubrication can be set up so you’re not really pushing the tolerances all that much. This gives a large displacement engine the advantage of always running with a high margin of safety. Modify the LS7 to 1000Whp and these same reliability issue crop up. I wish you the best of luck. I'm also with atlvalet, improving your driving skills and you'll be able to better capitalize on the C6 Z06's driver’s mistakes better. When you return to pit lane, the Vette driver will come over and ask, how the hell did you pull that off with that car?
I did not realize I would have to spend north of $40k in mods to reach this goal. I automatically thought the Evo was inexpensive to modify from what I have read. What is a reasonable whp goal without going into the bottom end and excessive expense? I read a Car and Driver article about a year ago where a Vishnu Evo was quite competitve. Is that car considered a highly tuned Evo or middle of the road? Will $20k in mods get the car to a level sufficient to easily out lap a GT3 or Viper with equal drivers?
Thanks again.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:29 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by WrX Kila
Hmm .... good thread. I dont think the evo will require that much to hang with those cars. 450whp will be more than enough. The suspension from the factory is goog, minor upgrades and you will hang with those guys. I would say $20.000 if you do the labor will do.
So there is hope. I almost called the Honda dealer to buy and S2000 instead.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:32 PM
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FQ-400 is a great idea (if you could get one). Even comes with a 1-year warranty. Only problem is the cost. This is an $82K car (46,999 pounds). It does fit the bill for reliability though. Probably very well tested by the Ralli-Art team.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:33 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Cerberus
Hi guys,
I have been considering getting an Evo for over a year now and have finally decided to pull the trigger. I will more than likely look for an Evo 8 versus a 9, since I will be replacing the turbo among other things and to save some money.
If I plan to change the suspension as well, is there any reason to consider the MR except for the 6-speed tranny and exclusivity? I have heard the 6 speed is not as durable as the already fragile 5 speed unit when modified. Is this true?
Basically, my goal is to build an Evo that can turn faster lap times than a GT3, C6 Z06, Viper and etc. I want to build a giant killer for road course work at autocrosses, HPDEs and possibly in the future real SCCA/NASA racing. I have no interest in drag racing the car, except for the occasional roll on. However, the car must remain comfortable for the street, since it will be used part time on the street and occasionally on the race track.
Here are my questions:
1. What engine mods will I need to reach my goal of 500 whp on 93 octane pump gas?
2. How much will it cost to reach the 500 whp reliably?
3. How reliable is an Evo at this horsepower level?
4. What engine parts should I expect to fail in my quest for 500 whp? I heard the transmission, driveline and clutch are the first to go.
5. How much suspension work will be required to get the Evo to handle on par with a well sorted GT3 with Motons? Is this possible at a reasonable cost with off the shelf components?
6. Are wider wheels advantageous on the Evo?
7. Are the stock Brembos up to snuff for track work?
8. What other mods are recommended or needed to achieve my goal?
I look forward to finally joining the Evo family. Thanks for your help.
I have been considering getting an Evo for over a year now and have finally decided to pull the trigger. I will more than likely look for an Evo 8 versus a 9, since I will be replacing the turbo among other things and to save some money.
If I plan to change the suspension as well, is there any reason to consider the MR except for the 6-speed tranny and exclusivity? I have heard the 6 speed is not as durable as the already fragile 5 speed unit when modified. Is this true?
Basically, my goal is to build an Evo that can turn faster lap times than a GT3, C6 Z06, Viper and etc. I want to build a giant killer for road course work at autocrosses, HPDEs and possibly in the future real SCCA/NASA racing. I have no interest in drag racing the car, except for the occasional roll on. However, the car must remain comfortable for the street, since it will be used part time on the street and occasionally on the race track.
Here are my questions:
1. What engine mods will I need to reach my goal of 500 whp on 93 octane pump gas?
2. How much will it cost to reach the 500 whp reliably?
3. How reliable is an Evo at this horsepower level?
4. What engine parts should I expect to fail in my quest for 500 whp? I heard the transmission, driveline and clutch are the first to go.
5. How much suspension work will be required to get the Evo to handle on par with a well sorted GT3 with Motons? Is this possible at a reasonable cost with off the shelf components?
6. Are wider wheels advantageous on the Evo?
7. Are the stock Brembos up to snuff for track work?
8. What other mods are recommended or needed to achieve my goal?
I look forward to finally joining the Evo family. Thanks for your help.
500 hp is an overshot goal, (search fq400) it has 400 hp on pump and eats supercars. There is a video on here of i killing a lambo on the track. On top of that (search RobiSpec + Viper) and check his mods out.
Realisticaly, it wont be as reliable as stock with these performance enhancements, but with a good tune will be close to stock reliability.
There are many more differences between the gsr, rs, and MR. the RS sounds like what your looking for. for various reasons..
This goal on pump gas is a stupid one to make, it will be more expensive and painstaking. Check out Alcohol injection.
For suspension tuning search "RobiSpec" and "Mueller." They both race prep Evos to eat supercars at the track for a reasonable price.
Basically a bunch of things will fail in your quest, but as your learn more about the Evo you will realize what needs to be replaced before it goes. It's a stupid question to ask because in your quest.. If you don't upgrade things as you go.. Your quest will be ended abruptly.
All in all to achieve your goal parts to look at are 35r + 2.3 stoker + Suspension. There are little things here and there that you will want/need to complete your setup, but i dont want to go into that. Your price for this whole adventure will probably be just over $10k.
As for the random questions, yes wider wheels/tires will be beneficial for track use, and yes the brembos will be suficient for track use.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:34 PM
#24
You can be assured that an S2000 isn't going to keep up with those cars either.
Yes, the Evo is very easily modified, but you aren't talking about keeping up with regular cars. A C6 Z06 is already so far ahead of the Evo that it's not even funny. You can probably do 10k worth of power mods, suspension, and tires then have a very competitive car, but it won't be a complete monster killer.
Yes, the Evo is very easily modified, but you aren't talking about keeping up with regular cars. A C6 Z06 is already so far ahead of the Evo that it's not even funny. You can probably do 10k worth of power mods, suspension, and tires then have a very competitive car, but it won't be a complete monster killer.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:41 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Cerberus
I would say I am an intermediate to advanced driver. I have probably attended over 12 HPDE's at the following tracks, Las Vegas Raceway, Sears Point, Spring Mountain and Button Willow. I have also attended the Skip Barber and Russell Racing schools. I am generally grouped in A or B groups depending on the sanctioning body. I have driven relatively powerful cars on these tracks (600 rwhp C5 Z06, stock Z06, modded 996 TT, modded M5 and the slowest being a 2004 NSX).
To answer your question, I think I am a good driver with excellent car control skills.
To answer your question, I think I am a good driver with excellent car control skills.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:46 PM
#27
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I think this post goes to show some compromises will be necessary. The overall tuning costs could certainly be kept under what I originally said, but it won't be cheap to out-do a new Z06. Throw some R3SO5's on the Vette and it gets even tougher.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KOEvo
Alright, i don't know why this thread is getting to me so much, but i am now going to answer your questions for you with off the top of my head facts to prove my point.
500 hp is an overshot goal, (search fq400) it has 400 hp on pump and eats supercars. There is a video on here of i killing a lambo on the track. On top of that (search RobiSpec + Viper) and check his mods out.
Realisticaly, it wont be as reliable as stock with these performance enhancements, but with a good tune will be close to stock reliability.
There are many more differences between the gsr, rs, and MR. the RS sounds like what your looking for. for various reasons..
This goal on pump gas is a stupid one to make, it will be more expensive and painstaking. Check out Alcohol injection.
For suspension tuning search "RobiSpec" and "Mueller." They both race prep Evos to eat supercars at the track for a reasonable price.
Basically a bunch of things will fail in your quest, but as your learn more about the Evo you will realize what needs to be replaced before it goes. It's a stupid question to ask because in your quest.. If you don't upgrade things as you go.. Your quest will be ended abruptly.
All in all to achieve your goal parts to look at are 35r + 2.3 stoker + Suspension. There are little things here and there that you will want/need to complete your setup, but i dont want to go into that. Your price for this whole adventure will probably be just over $10k.
As for the random questions, yes wider wheels/tires will be beneficial for track use, and yes the brembos will be suficient for track use.
500 hp is an overshot goal, (search fq400) it has 400 hp on pump and eats supercars. There is a video on here of i killing a lambo on the track. On top of that (search RobiSpec + Viper) and check his mods out.
Realisticaly, it wont be as reliable as stock with these performance enhancements, but with a good tune will be close to stock reliability.
There are many more differences between the gsr, rs, and MR. the RS sounds like what your looking for. for various reasons..
This goal on pump gas is a stupid one to make, it will be more expensive and painstaking. Check out Alcohol injection.
For suspension tuning search "RobiSpec" and "Mueller." They both race prep Evos to eat supercars at the track for a reasonable price.
Basically a bunch of things will fail in your quest, but as your learn more about the Evo you will realize what needs to be replaced before it goes. It's a stupid question to ask because in your quest.. If you don't upgrade things as you go.. Your quest will be ended abruptly.
All in all to achieve your goal parts to look at are 35r + 2.3 stoker + Suspension. There are little things here and there that you will want/need to complete your setup, but i dont want to go into that. Your price for this whole adventure will probably be just over $10k.
As for the random questions, yes wider wheels/tires will be beneficial for track use, and yes the brembos will be suficient for track use.
Thanks for taking the time to details your opinions. It was very helpful.
In regards to the race gas question, I probably improperly phrased my question. I was basically trying to determine how much power can be generated on pump gas only as a reference. I will more than likely solely run 100 octane, since the car is a part timer. Also, it sounds like 100 octane fuel will enable me to generate a lot more power than 91. On my GT2, the race file only increases power by maybe 30 hp over the pump file, so I don't find the cost/performance ratio appealing.
Thanks again.
Mar 29, 2006, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Warrtalon
You can be assured that an S2000 isn't going to keep up with those cars either.
Yes, the Evo is very easily modified, but you aren't talking about keeping up with regular cars. A C6 Z06 is already so far ahead of the Evo that it's not even funny. You can probably do 10k worth of power mods, suspension, and tires then have a very competitive car, but it won't be a complete monster killer.
Yes, the Evo is very easily modified, but you aren't talking about keeping up with regular cars. A C6 Z06 is already so far ahead of the Evo that it's not even funny. You can probably do 10k worth of power mods, suspension, and tires then have a very competitive car, but it won't be a complete monster killer.
I still think it is possible with an Evo however and still not spend $70k. At least I hope so.
Mar 29, 2006, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by atlvalet
Ok, obviously you have road racing experience. Why not try this. Put all available bolt-ons on your car, and take things from there. The Evo is plenty fun enough to enjoy that way. Like a Vishnu 390v car. You can even try a GT30 car and a stroker. That would be enough for me. Figure 5000 for the stroker and 5000 for the turbo kit, plus tuning and suspension. It shouldn't cost 40,000 to make you competitive. Maybe another 2 for a front brake kit.