View Poll Results: Warranty claim problems/ No claim problems.
Submitted claim, wasn't honored or had problems
129
58.90%
Submitted claim, no problems getting it fixed.
93
42.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll
Warranty Issues <Mega Merge>
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
Here is my perspective as an attorney and Evo owner (those who have been trashing attorneys thus far should feel to skip to the next post):
This is a warranty issue which means it's a contract dispute, an area attorneys know something about.
As the antimated debate on this post demonstrates, there is a wide range of opinon on what constitutes "racing".
Although the Mitsu warranty book (which I have read several times) says the warranty does not cover damage from racing, it never defines what the highly debatable term "racing"encompasses.
The rule for construing contracts is that the drafter bears the burden of showing what its terms mean and, ambiguities are construed against it: if the terms are unclear, that's the drafter's problem, not the buyer's. Here Mitsu's attorneys had total control of the warranty language, our input as buyers was zero: take it or leave it bub.
There is nothing in the warranty book about timed events voiding the warranty. Trying to add language to that effect, after the contract is signed and the car delivered is like the dealer sending you a letter two weeks after you bought the car saying he's just raised the purchase price $10K. Too bad Mitsu, you made the deal, you live with it.
My insurance coverage with State Farm defines racing. It says racing does NOT include auto-x or track days. Thus damage from that type of activity is protected by the insurance ( and I have the $3K check to prove it). I would argue that the insurance industry definition of racing is relevant in interpreting the term as used here.
There are no courtroom remedies here, our warranty specifies arbitration as the dispute resolution process.
Even if you do race your car, only that damage caused by racing is excluded, per the warranty. So, if the paint fades, that is still covered, even for the hardcore SCCA T-1 racers, duking it out with Vipers evey weekend.
See you at the track.
This is a warranty issue which means it's a contract dispute, an area attorneys know something about.
As the antimated debate on this post demonstrates, there is a wide range of opinon on what constitutes "racing".
Although the Mitsu warranty book (which I have read several times) says the warranty does not cover damage from racing, it never defines what the highly debatable term "racing"encompasses.
The rule for construing contracts is that the drafter bears the burden of showing what its terms mean and, ambiguities are construed against it: if the terms are unclear, that's the drafter's problem, not the buyer's. Here Mitsu's attorneys had total control of the warranty language, our input as buyers was zero: take it or leave it bub.
There is nothing in the warranty book about timed events voiding the warranty. Trying to add language to that effect, after the contract is signed and the car delivered is like the dealer sending you a letter two weeks after you bought the car saying he's just raised the purchase price $10K. Too bad Mitsu, you made the deal, you live with it.
My insurance coverage with State Farm defines racing. It says racing does NOT include auto-x or track days. Thus damage from that type of activity is protected by the insurance ( and I have the $3K check to prove it). I would argue that the insurance industry definition of racing is relevant in interpreting the term as used here.
There are no courtroom remedies here, our warranty specifies arbitration as the dispute resolution process.
Even if you do race your car, only that damage caused by racing is excluded, per the warranty. So, if the paint fades, that is still covered, even for the hardcore SCCA T-1 racers, duking it out with Vipers evey weekend.
See you at the track.
CincyEvo, thank you for the excellent post! Do you think it is important to work with an attorney with experience in this area, or is a good attorney with contract dispute experience sufficient?
The reference to state farm's definition of racing is very helpful.
-Michael
The reference to state farm's definition of racing is very helpful.
-Michael
Service Vehicle Inquiry
I asked one of the local dealers (Rockville, MD) for a Service Vehicle Inquiry sheet, and they acted like they didn't know what I was talking about. So I described it to them in elementary school language: do you have a report that includes my car build date, warranty coverage, recall performed, etc on it? And they printed some crap off of a Mitsubishi internal web page that was totally unformatted and illegible. This was last fall, so I don't know if they are acting any better these days.
Lac
Lac
Originally Posted by MSM_S2K
What I'd appreciate from everyone that reads this thread:
1. Contact your mitsubishi dealer and ask them for a copy of the "Service Vehicle Inquiry" for your car. This is the report that every dealer get's before doing any service on your car.
2. If your Service Vehicle Inquiry has "Warranty Restriction" at the top of the page, send me a PM on this board.
1. Contact your mitsubishi dealer and ask them for a copy of the "Service Vehicle Inquiry" for your car. This is the report that every dealer get's before doing any service on your car.
2. If your Service Vehicle Inquiry has "Warranty Restriction" at the top of the page, send me a PM on this board.
I didn't have a problem getting a copy of mine. They new exactly what it was and faxed a copy of it to me in about 30 min.
The point from the attorney that posted earlier makes it clear that the path for this is arbitration.
I love the EVO, it's a pleasure to drive. An all around great car for my son! I'm, however, frustrated & dissappointed with the bureacracy of
.
The point from the attorney that posted earlier makes it clear that the path for this is arbitration.
I love the EVO, it's a pleasure to drive. An all around great car for my son! I'm, however, frustrated & dissappointed with the bureacracy of
.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by CincyEvo
.
MSM - 1st, I would go http://www.bbb.com/ and file a complaint, call your local office and let them know.
2nd, I would have an attorney draft a letter on your behalf explaining your complaint on their letter head. Send a copy to your Mitsu Dealer, Regional and National offices.
3rd, get the service done; pay for it if you have to, but make sure that it is noted and copies are sent to above offices that you contest the warrenty being voided.
4th, File a claim against Mitsu or your dealer (although you will probibly file a claim against both); your attorney will help you here.
Don't forget that the burden of proof is on mitsu not you. You DO NOT have to prove the problem is not from racing, you DO NOT have to prove that Auto-x is not hard on the car. THEY DO make them spend the time and money to do so...What they are trying to do is illegal. I went through the same thing with Acura, and 5 minutes before arbitration they called and offered to cover everything. (Because they knew I was serious, and they knew they would lose) Feel free to shoot me an Email if you need anymore info... joe@truerace.com
If and when mitsu folds make sure to get copies of EVERYTHING scan them and post them on here, precedence will be set and all other attempts by mitsu will be stoped
Last edited by TrueRace; Jun 8, 2004 at 05:47 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
From: Home of USGP!
Originally Posted by CincyEvo
Here is my perspective as an attorney and Evo owner (those who have been trashing attorneys thus far should feel to skip to the next post):
This is a warranty issue which means it's a contract dispute, an area attorneys know something about.
As the antimated debate on this post demonstrates, there is a wide range of opinon on what constitutes "racing".
Although the Mitsu warranty book (which I have read several times) says the warranty does not cover damage from racing, it never defines what the highly debatable term "racing"encompasses.
The rule for construing contracts is that the drafter bears the burden of showing what its terms mean and, ambiguities are construed against it: if the terms are unclear, that's the drafter's problem, not the buyer's. Here Mitsu's attorneys had total control of the warranty language, our input as buyers was zero: take it or leave it bub.
There is nothing in the warranty book about timed events voiding the warranty. Trying to add language to that effect, after the contract is signed and the car delivered is like the dealer sending you a letter two weeks after you bought the car saying he's just raised the purchase price $10K. Too bad Mitsu, you made the deal, you live with it.
My insurance coverage with State Farm defines racing. It says racing does NOT include auto-x or track days. Thus damage from that type of activity is protected by the insurance ( and I have the $3K check to prove it). I would argue that the insurance industry definition of racing is relevant in interpreting the term as used here.
There are no courtroom remedies here, our warranty specifies arbitration as the dispute resolution process.
Even if you do race your car, only that damage caused by racing is excluded, per the warranty. So, if the paint fades, that is still covered, even for the hardcore SCCA T-1 racers, duking it out with Vipers evey weekend.
See you at the track.
This is a warranty issue which means it's a contract dispute, an area attorneys know something about.
As the antimated debate on this post demonstrates, there is a wide range of opinon on what constitutes "racing".
Although the Mitsu warranty book (which I have read several times) says the warranty does not cover damage from racing, it never defines what the highly debatable term "racing"encompasses.
The rule for construing contracts is that the drafter bears the burden of showing what its terms mean and, ambiguities are construed against it: if the terms are unclear, that's the drafter's problem, not the buyer's. Here Mitsu's attorneys had total control of the warranty language, our input as buyers was zero: take it or leave it bub.
There is nothing in the warranty book about timed events voiding the warranty. Trying to add language to that effect, after the contract is signed and the car delivered is like the dealer sending you a letter two weeks after you bought the car saying he's just raised the purchase price $10K. Too bad Mitsu, you made the deal, you live with it.
My insurance coverage with State Farm defines racing. It says racing does NOT include auto-x or track days. Thus damage from that type of activity is protected by the insurance ( and I have the $3K check to prove it). I would argue that the insurance industry definition of racing is relevant in interpreting the term as used here.
There are no courtroom remedies here, our warranty specifies arbitration as the dispute resolution process.
Even if you do race your car, only that damage caused by racing is excluded, per the warranty. So, if the paint fades, that is still covered, even for the hardcore SCCA T-1 racers, duking it out with Vipers evey weekend.
See you at the track.
says we will go to an arbitrator doesn't actually mak it so, does it?
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by OnlineAlias
Just becuase says we will go to an arbitrator doesn't actually mak it so, does it?
says we will go to an arbitrator doesn't actually mak it so, does it?
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
OnLine Al:
The alternate dispute resolution process was provided for in the package of materials I was handed (along with the warranty book) after I bought the car. I suppose it could be challenged but having spent a signnificant amount of time in court I would prefer to avoid that expensive, cumbersome , slow, and unpredictable process.
I don't think an attorney is essential for success but it would probably make sense to have a consultation with one before diving in. I suspect every state has its own definition of "racing" and a local attorney could research that as well as provide advice on what is missing from your claim/defense, etc. Your local bar association will be happy to make a referral. Other than the definition of racing, the argument here is primarily factual, not legal, so a lawyer does not seem essential.
I don't think the implied warranties would be of assistance here since fitness for racing is not implied and since the written warranty specifically addresses the issue.
As Truerace notes, the burden of proof is on Mitsu, meaning that if what you did was in fact "racing", Mitsu still has to prove it caused the damage they are refusing to cover under their warranty. If it's unclear, you win.
The alternate dispute resolution process was provided for in the package of materials I was handed (along with the warranty book) after I bought the car. I suppose it could be challenged but having spent a signnificant amount of time in court I would prefer to avoid that expensive, cumbersome , slow, and unpredictable process.
I don't think an attorney is essential for success but it would probably make sense to have a consultation with one before diving in. I suspect every state has its own definition of "racing" and a local attorney could research that as well as provide advice on what is missing from your claim/defense, etc. Your local bar association will be happy to make a referral. Other than the definition of racing, the argument here is primarily factual, not legal, so a lawyer does not seem essential.
I don't think the implied warranties would be of assistance here since fitness for racing is not implied and since the written warranty specifically addresses the issue.
As Truerace notes, the burden of proof is on Mitsu, meaning that if what you did was in fact "racing", Mitsu still has to prove it caused the damage they are refusing to cover under their warranty. If it's unclear, you win.
Well put CincyEvo. I would also like to see some type of class action based the many ad's for the EVO that list specific 0-60 times, and things like the graphic banner on Mitsu's web page for the EVO.
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/lancer...ion/index.html
"Competitors fear it / fans cheer it / now / you can drive it"
If this doesn't imply racing is ok, whatever form it does or doesn't ultimately take, I don't know what does.
It doesn't say you can drive something similar or derived from a "race car" it says you can drive IT.
The site has other language that implies high-performance and the like. Under the RS section they invite you to compare the car against the 350z TRACK VERSION, eh hem, TRACK VERSION.
It never says you will void any warranty by doing any racing on that page either. So even if the warranty issue, in this case, is headed for arbitration, I am of the non-lawyer opinion that they have falsely advertised the EVO. Which should cost them some coin.
Plus enrollment on this non-warranty list ahead of any claims, disputed or not, smacks of a "blacklist" type set up, that can't be legal (can it), at a minimum it's worth some publicity in the mags.
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/lancer...ion/index.html
"Competitors fear it / fans cheer it / now / you can drive it"
If this doesn't imply racing is ok, whatever form it does or doesn't ultimately take, I don't know what does.
It doesn't say you can drive something similar or derived from a "race car" it says you can drive IT.
The site has other language that implies high-performance and the like. Under the RS section they invite you to compare the car against the 350z TRACK VERSION, eh hem, TRACK VERSION.
It never says you will void any warranty by doing any racing on that page either. So even if the warranty issue, in this case, is headed for arbitration, I am of the non-lawyer opinion that they have falsely advertised the EVO. Which should cost them some coin.
Plus enrollment on this non-warranty list ahead of any claims, disputed or not, smacks of a "blacklist" type set up, that can't be legal (can it), at a minimum it's worth some publicity in the mags.
Originally Posted by CincyEvo
My insurance coverage with State Farm defines racing. It says racing does NOT include auto-x or track days. Thus damage from that type of activity is protected by the insurance ( and I have the $3K check to prove it).
I to, have State Farm for my auto insurance. Is this State Farm definition online? Where would I find it? If I could find this in writing, it would make me VERY happy.
Thanks for the help.
Sorry for going OT, but other may want to know as well.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, OH
AutoX'r:
I dont have the State Farm policy handy and I forget how it's worded but it defines racing in a way that makes it clear that auto-x & track days are "driver's education", not racing. I leant my Miata to a friend who slid it into a tree at an auto-X. I had it trailered to a repair shop, race tires and all, and told State Farm exactly what happened and they promptly paid to fix it. My premiums did not go up either.
I dont have the State Farm policy handy and I forget how it's worded but it defines racing in a way that makes it clear that auto-x & track days are "driver's education", not racing. I leant my Miata to a friend who slid it into a tree at an auto-X. I had it trailered to a repair shop, race tires and all, and told State Farm exactly what happened and they promptly paid to fix it. My premiums did not go up either.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, MD
I appreciate how the discussion has evolved into a realistic discussion of the proper legal avenues and actual rights EVO owners have available. 'Nuff with the "the EVO is a street legal race car! Why won't Mitsu not cover me driving it hard!" discussions. CincyEvo's hit the nail on the head. Go forth and win your arbitrations!
Thanks everyone for the excellent posts. I'm also insured with State Farm. I've asked my agent to get me a copy of their definition of racing. I'll post it here when I get it.
Thank you again for the excellent advice. I've received more insight from this forum than I ever expected. Kudos to the great group of members here!
Thank you again for the excellent advice. I've received more insight from this forum than I ever expected. Kudos to the great group of members here!