New Full Blown 70mm cast TB
Dec 19, 2013, 07:12 AM
#256
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Here is your example: http://www.amsperformance.com/attach...Gear_Clamp.pdf
The exact reason why your fullblown TB got crushed, I admit the TB is a bit thin but this would not have happened that easily with a wormgear clamp. Basically T-bolt clamps sucks and cost more then a wormgear clamp, so why use it?
The exact reason why your fullblown TB got crushed, I admit the TB is a bit thin but this would not have happened that easily with a wormgear clamp. Basically T-bolt clamps sucks and cost more then a wormgear clamp, so why use it?
Last edited by Dragracer187; Dec 19, 2013 at 07:14 AM.
Dec 19, 2013, 09:52 AM
#257
Evolved Member
Here is your example: http://www.amsperformance.com/attach...Gear_Clamp.pdf
The exact reason why your fullblown TB got crushed, I admit the TB is a bit thin but this would not have happened that easily with a wormgear clamp. Basically T-bolt clamps sucks and cost more then a wormgear clamp, so why use it?
The exact reason why your fullblown TB got crushed, I admit the TB is a bit thin but this would not have happened that easily with a wormgear clamp. Basically T-bolt clamps sucks and cost more then a wormgear clamp, so why use it?
WHY A TRADITIONAL WORM GEAR CLAMP WORKS BETTER
THAN A T-BOLT CLAMP FOR FORCED INDUCTIONWhen it comes to securing silicone couplers to aluminum piping on the pressurized sections of a
vehicle’s turbo system, there has been quite some controversy on whether a t-bolt clamp works
better than a traditional worm gear clamp. Many would like to believe that the t-bolt clamp is a
more failsafe method because of its rugged and thicker set design as well as the fact that it costs
more than a worm gear clamp of equal size, but this is not the case.
Yes, it is true that a t-bolt clamp provides more clamping force than the worm gear clamp, but
the clamping force that it applies is a bit excessive and can oftentimes bend and distort the aluminum
piping as more pressure is applied. A t-bolt clamp may work well when securing a silicone
section to stronger, thick steel piping, but from our experience, it simply does not provide
the correct clamping force when applied to lightweight aluminum piping which we have illustrated
in this image below. In essence, the distribution of clamping pressure is just as important
as the amount of pressure.
Because the t-bolt does not make uniform contact like the worm gear housing (as illustrated
above), it produces a greater amount of clamping pressure in the areas which are circled. It also
applies relatively weak clamping pressure in the area where the bolt makes less contact with the
band (arrow in blue).
more failsafe method because of its rugged and thicker set design as well as the fact that it costs
more than a worm gear clamp of equal size, but this is not the case.
Yes, it is true that a t-bolt clamp provides more clamping force than the worm gear clamp, but
the clamping force that it applies is a bit excessive and can oftentimes bend and distort the aluminum
piping as more pressure is applied. A t-bolt clamp may work well when securing a silicone
section to stronger, thick steel piping, but from our experience, it simply does not provide
the correct clamping force when applied to lightweight aluminum piping which we have illustrated
in this image below. In essence, the distribution of clamping pressure is just as important
as the amount of pressure.
Because the t-bolt does not make uniform contact like the worm gear housing (as illustrated
above), it produces a greater amount of clamping pressure in the areas which are circled. It also
applies relatively weak clamping pressure in the area where the bolt makes less contact with the
band (arrow in blue).
Since the worm gear housing is situated on the band rather than above it, clamping pressure is
exerted more evenly, reducing the possibility of crushing the pipe and compromising a secure
seal. In any event, a high quality, stainless steel worm gear clamp will provide enough clamping
pressure to safely secure silicone tubing without damaging the lightweight aluminum piping
used on turbo systems - even on extremely high psi applications.
Rather than paying more for a t-bolt clamp that offers no benefit, anyone installing aftermarket
charged piping on their vehicle would be better off focusing on the quality of the materials and
craftsmanship of the piping, couplers and worm gear clamps that they plan to install. You can
do so by using pipes made of high quality aluminum with bead-rolled ends to ensure a tight
seal. Use only high grade couplers with 4-ply construction for additional strength and resistance
to fatigue. Finally, only use high grade stainless steel worm gear clamps of the correct size and
properly tighten them right behind the bead roll. As with any installation, periodic checks and
appropriate maintenance are important. If you follow these steps, you will minimize the chance
of a boost leak.seal. In any event, a high quality, stainless steel worm gear clamp will provide enough clamping
pressure to safely secure silicone tubing without damaging the lightweight aluminum piping
used on turbo systems - even on extremely high psi applications.
Rather than paying more for a t-bolt clamp that offers no benefit, anyone installing aftermarket
charged piping on their vehicle would be better off focusing on the quality of the materials and
craftsmanship of the piping, couplers and worm gear clamps that they plan to install. You can
do so by using pipes made of high quality aluminum with bead-rolled ends to ensure a tight
seal. Use only high grade couplers with 4-ply construction for additional strength and resistance
to fatigue. Finally, only use high grade stainless steel worm gear clamps of the correct size and
properly tighten them right behind the bead roll. As with any installation, periodic checks and
appropriate maintenance are important. If you follow these steps, you will minimize the chance
Dec 19, 2013, 10:34 AM
#258
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I just gave you good information, use it, and stop thinking t-bolt clamps are rock solid like you said in previous post. Now you see AMS does not use t-bolts, more misinformation in your previous posts.
You clearly overtightened your TB, you have eyes you can see the FB TB is thinner then others. You should have been more cautious when tightening it. Look how deformed your TB is. If you cannot judge how tight it should be better bring it to a garage that does. If you bring me a MILspec TB I can make it look the same as yours
.
You clearly overtightened your TB, you have eyes you can see the FB TB is thinner then others. You should have been more cautious when tightening it. Look how deformed your TB is. If you cannot judge how tight it should be better bring it to a garage that does. If you bring me a MILspec TB I can make it look the same as yours
.
Dec 19, 2013, 11:12 AM
#259
Evolved Member
I just gave you good information, use it, and stop thinking t-bolt clamps are rock solid like you said in previous post. Now you see AMS does not use t-bolts, more misinformation in your previous posts.
You clearly overtightened your TB, you have eyes you can see the FB TB is thinner then others. You should have been more cautious when tightening it. Look how deformed your TB is. If you cannot judge how tight it should be better bring it to a garage that does. If you bring me a MILspec TB I can make it look the same as yours.
You clearly overtightened your TB, you have eyes you can see the FB TB is thinner then others. You should have been more cautious when tightening it. Look how deformed your TB is. If you cannot judge how tight it should be better bring it to a garage that does. If you bring me a MILspec TB I can make it look the same as yours
.
I made an honest mistake about AMS, they are an outlier as far t-bolt clamps go and theirs is not the word of god (whatever your preferred mythology might be).
You deliberately misrepresented information as one thing, while it was something else entirely.
I challenged you to identify a single example of another whose throttle body for the Evo 8/9 was crushed by a t-bolt clamp and you have failed to do so. Put up or shut up.
Last edited by wjamyers; Dec 20, 2013 at 01:22 PM. Reason: cleanup
Dec 19, 2013, 12:02 PM
#260
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Maybe future users of this TB should first install the silicon hose seperate on the TB, and see if the TB deforms or breaks when tightening. If all is ok then install the IC pipe.
Why are you still here, go find that piece of alu before it wrecks your engine. Better find it before your engine dies.
Why are you still here, go find that piece of alu before it wrecks your engine. Better find it before your engine dies.
Dec 20, 2013, 07:08 AM
#261
Maybe future users of this TB should first install the silicon hose seperate on the TB, and see if the TB deforms or breaks when tightening. If all is ok then install the IC pipe.
Why are you still here, go find that piece of alu before it wrecks your engine. Better find it before your engine dies.
Why are you still here, go find that piece of alu before it wrecks your engine. Better find it before your engine dies.
Personally i have try both. I think its up to whoever that used both correctly. You cannot say that t-clamp is bad, or else you will look like a lil foolish girl! Yes girl, t -clamp can hold much better if you running more boost.
I have used a regular clamp on just 30psi and it pop out. Then i try tighten it more and the clamp holder got open and its not good anymore.
Using the t-clamp responsible way then it wouldnt bent or crack your metal or aluminum.
Most people bent or crack metal by using the t-clamp is because they over tighten them.
I definitely dont like you give people the encouragement of not using the right product, such as a t-clamp. I want you to advice people to used it the right way.
The best advice rite now that u can give people is.... Dont listen to what is say!!!!
Lmfao
Jan 21, 2015, 05:44 AM
#262
We have used this with our Rev 3 Intake Manifold and experienced some pretty serious gains. In the future we will run more back to back comparisons and bring our results to the community, but for now I just wanted to share this tid bit in regards to using your OEM Manifolds.
Each FBM 70mm TB will ship with the adapter pictured below, guys running oem intake manifolds can upgrade with out hassle. On our Rev 3 we build material up around the TB flange and then port match, the process does take a bit more time and thus costs about $50 more....well worth it imho.
Each FBM 70mm TB will ship with the adapter pictured below, guys running oem intake manifolds can upgrade with out hassle. On our Rev 3 we build material up around the TB flange and then port match, the process does take a bit more time and thus costs about $50 more....well worth it imho.
i didi not get this adapter with my order but i ordered directly from FB
Jan 22, 2015, 07:47 AM
#263
I have a fullblown throttle body before, my tuner have a hard time keeping the idle smooth. It goes up and down all the time at idle.
I bought mine brand new and using it with my stock manifold.
Does anyone have similar problems?
Under a dark room, i shine my flashlight thru one end and look at the other end and i see that the middle plate doesnt seals the throttle body. I see that the top and bottom half have a thin unseal around it. I think that causes my idle problem because the sensor on the throttle body cant control the air when the plate is closed. Air is leaking thru the middle plate.
I bought mine brand new and using it with my stock manifold.
Does anyone have similar problems?
Under a dark room, i shine my flashlight thru one end and look at the other end and i see that the middle plate doesnt seals the throttle body. I see that the top and bottom half have a thin unseal around it. I think that causes my idle problem because the sensor on the throttle body cant control the air when the plate is closed. Air is leaking thru the middle plate.
Jan 22, 2015, 11:58 AM
#265
I have a fullblown throttle body before, my tuner have a hard time keeping the idle smooth. It goes up and down all the time at idle.
I bought mine brand new and using it with my stock manifold.
Does anyone have similar problems?
Under a dark room, i shine my flashlight thru one end and look at the other end and i see that the middle plate doesnt seals the throttle body. I see that the top and bottom half have a thin unseal around it. I think that causes my idle problem because the sensor on the throttle body cant control the air when the plate is closed. Air is leaking thru the middle plate.
I bought mine brand new and using it with my stock manifold.
Does anyone have similar problems?
Under a dark room, i shine my flashlight thru one end and look at the other end and i see that the middle plate doesnt seals the throttle body. I see that the top and bottom half have a thin unseal around it. I think that causes my idle problem because the sensor on the throttle body cant control the air when the plate is closed. Air is leaking thru the middle plate.
Jan 22, 2015, 12:37 PM
#266
Evolved Member
Looks like I need to straighten some things out.
1. I broke my FB 70mm TB by over-tightening a TOO LARGE T-bolt clamp. Because the size didn't match closely, the force was not properly-distributed.
2. A high-quality stainless-steel aftermarket worm clamp is perfectly adequate to use on your TB up to some ridiculous amount of boost and is less likely to damage it.
3. A properly size-matched T-bolt clamp, used with proper care, is likely not going to damage your TB.
4. The FB 70mm TB does NOT have a Biss, so a. stop telling people who have a FB 70mm TB to adjust it, and b. forget about doing so.
All of that said, I am glad I went with the MilSpec ported unit. My sticky throttle is gone, my throttle response is smooth, my power delivery is smooth and I know I won't ever have to worry about my shaft seals. And I haven't even tuned for it yet. That's coming up.
PS. I did find that piece of aluminum, inside the IAC motor housing.
1. I broke my FB 70mm TB by over-tightening a TOO LARGE T-bolt clamp. Because the size didn't match closely, the force was not properly-distributed.
2. A high-quality stainless-steel aftermarket worm clamp is perfectly adequate to use on your TB up to some ridiculous amount of boost and is less likely to damage it.
3. A properly size-matched T-bolt clamp, used with proper care, is likely not going to damage your TB.
4. The FB 70mm TB does NOT have a Biss, so a. stop telling people who have a FB 70mm TB to adjust it, and b. forget about doing so.
All of that said, I am glad I went with the MilSpec ported unit. My sticky throttle is gone, my throttle response is smooth, my power delivery is smooth and I know I won't ever have to worry about my shaft seals. And I haven't even tuned for it yet. That's coming up.
PS. I did find that piece of aluminum, inside the IAC motor housing.
Last edited by wjamyers; Jan 22, 2015 at 12:43 PM.
Jan 22, 2015, 06:10 PM
#267
Looks like I need to straighten some things out.
1. I broke my FB 70mm TB by over-tightening a TOO LARGE T-bolt clamp. Because the size didn't match closely, the force was not properly-distributed.
2. A high-quality stainless-steel aftermarket worm clamp is perfectly adequate to use on your TB up to some ridiculous amount of boost and is less likely to damage it.
3. A properly size-matched T-bolt clamp, used with proper care, is likely not going to damage your TB.
4. The FB 70mm TB does NOT have a Biss, so a. stop telling people who have a FB 70mm TB to adjust it, and b. forget about doing so.
All of that said, I am glad I went with the MilSpec ported unit. My sticky throttle is gone, my throttle response is smooth, my power delivery is smooth and I know I won't ever have to worry about my shaft seals. And I haven't even tuned for it yet. That's coming up.
PS. I did find that piece of aluminum, inside the IAC motor housing.
1. I broke my FB 70mm TB by over-tightening a TOO LARGE T-bolt clamp. Because the size didn't match closely, the force was not properly-distributed.
2. A high-quality stainless-steel aftermarket worm clamp is perfectly adequate to use on your TB up to some ridiculous amount of boost and is less likely to damage it.
3. A properly size-matched T-bolt clamp, used with proper care, is likely not going to damage your TB.
4. The FB 70mm TB does NOT have a Biss, so a. stop telling people who have a FB 70mm TB to adjust it, and b. forget about doing so.
All of that said, I am glad I went with the MilSpec ported unit. My sticky throttle is gone, my throttle response is smooth, my power delivery is smooth and I know I won't ever have to worry about my shaft seals. And I haven't even tuned for it yet. That's coming up.
PS. I did find that piece of aluminum, inside the IAC motor housing.
Mar 2, 2017, 12:35 PM
#268
Evolving Member
Just got my fb today and I saw this. Is it suppose to be like this? I hope that doesn't cause my seal to leak. Won't know till I do a boost leak test.
Mar 2, 2017, 12:36 PM
#269
Evolving Member
Maybe that's how they lock the seal in place?
Nov 12, 2020, 07:03 PM
#270
Bringing this back from the dead for some advice for those that have the FP 70mm TB. I am in need of putting the EGR back in and realize that I don't have any stock nipples on the top of the TB in order to route the 2 EGR lines. How could I reroute those or T off of other lines in the best to reconnect the EGR?
If any of you did put EGR back in or left it in, can you take a pic of how you ran the line.
Thanks!
If any of you did put EGR back in or left it in, can you take a pic of how you ran the line.
Thanks!