The JDM supra and the USDM supra had different hp ratings. 280 and 320 were the right estimate, not just numbers. They either lowered the boost or had it altered in someway. I know this for a fact because stock versions of both cars had different ratings from dynos.

As for the competition, I agree. The comparison should be stuck to rally inspired cars. As for AWD, the Audi TT also has quattro, whether or not it should be considered as a competitor. Personally, I think they are in the roadster category. (s2000, 350z, Audi TT, etc)

Just curious, but how environment friendly (emissions) are mustangs, or vipers? or any of those big power plant muscle cars?

 

Yea, see I wasn't considering the Audi TT as competition. I mean, sure there are other AWD turbo cars out there, but they aren't real competition. You have the Volvo S40, the S60R, the Audi TT, and the Audi RS6. None of those are real competition though. Even the Audi A4 1.8T Quattro that I mentioned earlier isn't real good competition. They can be made very fast, the 1.8T is a sweet engine, but they are just a totally different car. Oh well, any car that can get up and move pretty fast is cool by me. I don't care if its "rally" based or whatever. I just like speed.

As for the emission questions about the Viper and Vette, its not just the size of the engine that makes for good or bad emissions. Its engine design, ECU control, exhaust management, and many other things that determine emissions. I mean, hell, M-Benz AMG now makes a 6.5L Twin Turbo V12 for the S, SL, and CL with 615hp and 740ft-lbs. Thats a whole lot of engine. But, when built and tuned properly, it can be just fine on emissions. With those older engines we were talking about, they weren't made with newer emission regs in mind. So, when you start having to take much tougher emissions standards into account, those engines start putting less and less power out.

Hilg

 

Engines != Emissions. the Chevy 350ci engine has been around for, what 5 decades now? Simple changes to ECUs, or heads, or exhuasts and cats can cure emissions woes. Sometimes it just it is not financially worth it to make those changes when a more common motor used in many vehicles is available. The 3S-GTE stopped coming here becuase sales of it were too low to warrant further R&D to make those changes. Follow the Dollar.


I think the RS6 would compete with the Evo for performance, but it's heavy and it is expensive at ~$85,000

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/08/rs602_02.jpg

 

so what are you saying dude, emissions + environment friendly or not?
stock, of course.

 

FWIW- The 350CI smallblock died with the LT1. The LS series of smallblocks are completely different beasts from the 350s of the past.

While you are correct in saying that simple changes to the ECUs, heads, exhausts, and cats can cure emissions problems, these simple changes can often be quite detrimental to performance or gas mileage. Look at what happened to Mazda with the Renesis. They had a great engine with quite a bit of potential, but at the last minute they had to tweak the ECU in order to pass emissions. The result, as we all know, was an engine putting out at least 20 hp less than it was originally slated to produce and got worse gas mileage than the more powerful previous generation turbo rotary. Sure, a simple ECU tweak was all they needed to cure emissions woes, but look at the consequences. I don't think that Nissan or Toyota wanted to suck the life out of their famous engines in order to get them to pass emissions laws that are only going to get tougher in the future, and so they wisely chose to phase out these old, obsolete engines and design a new generation to power their vehicles. Sales were too low and R&D costs would be too high to justify completely overhauling and redesigning major components of these older engines every time a new emissions law was past, so the companies "Follow[ed] the dollar" as you said.

 

I woudn't say completely different, they have just evolved.

What about the Pontiac GTO. That looks like it may compete. On the street with a few bolts ons, I imagine the GTO would easily run 400+ hp and be a mean beast to run in a straight line.
http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp...&pagename=home

 

How is the handling on domestics? I know they are massive power plants and amazing drag cars, but what about their cornering capabilities? I see a lot of domestics on the drag strip, but not that many on autox.

 

Z06s at Autocrosses and road circuits usually kick a lot of booty.

 

so they are good at handling. cuz what I saw was them slow as hell in corners and just rocketing on the straights.

 

^Does it matter what e drives? I'm sure some of the editors at Car and Driver drive beaters to work. I also believe the next competitor for the EVO will be the C6. Gobs of power and weighs some 3100 pounds. The Elise is already out so I don't think it should be in the comparo.
I think the price of the new 'Vette shouldn't deter it from the comparo because it is also a cheap supercar. I've heard of people choosing between the 360 and the EVO. A year or two after they're released people will be comparing the two cars' specs.

 

Choosing between an Evo and a 360 Modena? Yeah, sure.

 

The Japanese supra had smaller turbos stock, it actually did make less power than the US and European versions.

I also think you are wrong the year that the Supra was only an Auto. I believe it was '95, but on that I could be wrong.

 

You're correct. The '96 was automatic-only.

 

Ok, I was off one year on the Auto-Only one. I was close. And, yes, the JDM Supra TT did have different sized ceramic turbos, smaller injectors, slightly less cam, and ran on a MAP sensor, not the airflow sensor we got here. But, the JDM engine made about 10ft-lbs more torque. I know its not always, but usually when torque is up, power is up as well. Might not have been all the way to 320hp like we had here, because of the smaller components listed, but I bet it wasn't far off. Those little changes might have hurt, but tuning for the better gas with the MAP sensor should help. I'm just saying, the car might not have made 320hp like the US model, but I bet it was closer to that # than the 280hp it was listed at. I mean, seriously. Every year, the Evo and STi over there get more and more tuning, better turbos, blah blah blah. The torque always goes up, but they're always listed at 280hp. I highly doubt they still just make 280hp. Thats all I'm saying.

Hilg

 

Look at the Skyline R33 to R34. The R34 has 18 more lb-ft of torque, yet they both claimed 280 PS. So, yeah, there were a lot of cars over the 280 PS number.