Exactly. Thats all I was getting at. The 280 limit is just a "Listed power limit" not actual power. Kinda like whats going on now with the SRT-4. Dodge says they have 230 crank hp from the factory, but people are dynoing them at almost that same number at the wheels. Its just a matter of what the company wants to claim.

Hilg

 

Yeah... and definately better than Mazda's habitual overclaims...

 

Mazdas make claimed power on special rotary gas only... hehe.

 

Actually, I believe that the RX-8 actually makes the originally claimed power. The traction control/ECU on the RX-8 does not like it when the drive wheels are moving and the front ones are not and it then cuts power.

The tracktimes match up to the originally claimed power. I think that a bunch of RX-8 guys got lucky and got some free money from Mazda.

 

ford focus cosworth is coming! 300hp 6 speed awd hatch mmmm.... lol

 

If ford would only get a clue.. but instead they're hoping to sell what 25 Ford GTs.. and they are way overpriced and underperforming.. might be reliable though.. we'll see killing of a lot of SVTs and potential sales for that GT.. oh well they teased us with AWD foci for too long. their loss.

 

Traction control = bad, AYC = good.

 

Clicky

On the LS1: "LS1 is brilliant.

Rather than just a chapter in engine history; it’s more like a whole new book!

What it is not is: "based on" Ed Cole’s legendary Small-Block. LS1’s greatness comes from being a clean-sheet-of-paper design. The only major feature it has in common with the Small-Block is a bore center-to-center measurement of 4.40 inches and we believe that exists for marketing reasons rather than an engineering case."

To say that the LS1 is merely an evolved form of the smallblock is to say that the 3G Eclipse is merely an evolved form of the DSMs. While the engines/cars share a name with their predecessors and are marketed to the same demographics, that is where the similarities end. They are not so much evolved forms of what came before as they are direct replacements for their forbears with a similar name just to provide a sense of continuity for the public at large.

Back on topic: The GTO will be a straight line monster with just as much potential as the Evo in this department, if not more, but it is quite a bit larger and heavier than the Evo with a different demographic. A person who is seriously looking in to the Evo, an econobox that performs very, very well, would probably not spend $35k on a semi-luxury midsized sedan with a mediocre stock suspension unless the aforementioned potential Evo owner is only interested in the straight line capabilities of the car. This car can be more aptly compared to, say, a MB or the new 300M than to the smaller, cheaper (both in price and, reportedly, in feel) Evo or STi.

IMO, the only real competitors that the Evo will have is the STi, the R32, and the odd high-performance compact sedan or hatch that comes to market within the next few years. The Evo et al. form a unique breed of car that isn't very marketable for most brands, so these few cars will remain in a league of their own for the time being. Hopefully I will be wrong and, by the time I graduate, there will be a glut of such cars on the market (driving prices down and performance up ), but I just don't see this happening.

 

The only problem with that speculation is that the RX-8 runs mid-high 14 1/4 mile times. If the RX8 had 250hp, it would easily be in the mid-low 14 second range, along with the FWD, 240-250 hp V6 Altima and '02-'03 Maxima. There was also a member who disconnected the speed sensors on the front wheels, split the rear wheel sensor lines and plugged them in to the slots for both the front and rear wheels to make the ECU think that they were all travelling at the same speed and he still got the same dyno readouts (~185rwhp, IIRC). On a dyno, the RX8's low end torque curve looks much the same as the dynos of the original, 247hp test models, but after the 3rd set of ports open the torque curve begins to fall, rather than rise slightly and maintain to redline. If TC was kicking in, the results would happen at a much lower rpm (they dyno in 5th gear, so the ECU would have been detecting slip long before 6000 rpms in 5th) and would be much more dramatic e.g. the dyno would nose dive when TC kicked in rather than just very gradually falling off toward redline.

These facts, coupled with the large gains made by aftermarket ECUs, make me as well as many others belive that the RX8 ECU was mangled in a last minute attempt to pass emissions testing. Mazda is continually releasing reflashes as they fine tune the new ECU settings, but so far they have not found a way to restore the missing hp.

 

I will bet that it does not. Say $5?

 

Underperforming? The Ford GT? You are trying to say that the Ford GT under performs...

Oh yeah, beating Porshce's and Ferrari's is underperforming...

I just dont know where you get this stuff...

 

You are wiser than me on this issue it seems. I will rephrase based on the information that you provided. The engine is fine. They did something wrong outside of the engine that screwed things up.

I have also heard that alot of the early cars had some problems with the third set of ports openning properly. Have you heard anything about that?

I have also heard that there is a great variance in the dyno's for the first year of the car, with some dyno's actually showing proper numbers. Do you have any information about that?

 

http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/m...EO&id=4&bhcp=1

I'm anxious to see it show up and see the actual MSRP and actual test results. The test mules have been a varied mixed bag. I suspect a lot of testing of high HP motors to get attention, but it would be nice to see those "test" results show up in production cars. Bring em on Ford. Right now I am skeptical of it's prowess. But I would love to be shown differently.

 

I've done a fair amount of reading on RX8club.com in my aimless wanderings through the internet Like you said, the engine is fine and is in many ways a great success, it's the engine management that is throwing a monkey wrench in to the works. The preproduction models had some problems with the third set of ports opening (Mazda says that they were sticking shut during some of the early magazine tests) but AFAIK these issues were resolved when the first production models were shipped. As far as dyno results are concerned, the only ones that I've seen that show the full 247hp (~210rwhp) are the JDM RX8s and the ones that have canzoomer's ECU mod. There has been some car to car variance, but no more than with any other model, and far less than some (the early dyno of an Evo putting out ~180awhp comes to mind...). If you've seen any stock USDM RX8 dynos showing that kind of power, I'd love to see a link to it. I'm far from knowing even half of what is going on with the RX8 and I always like to see some new info. Hope I helped some

 

The Nissan Altima SE-R with 250+ HP V6 and 225/45WR-18s might be something that gets some good road holding capabilities..

Pontiac Solstice might as well, like a big Miata..