Best brakes?
for rally they usually change the brakes from the larger more clamping power rotors and calipers for gravel events. but for tarmac they bring out the big guns... so since you named three motorsports... two and possibly a half being on tarmac i'd say go with the big guns. seeing as they're the same price.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: KL,Malaysia
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
What is the name of this kit, or the name of the finish used on the calipers?
Use your search button.
Originally Posted by Taz
Wow, you sure sound like you work over at stoptech. "Balanced" is a big word over there...
Anyway, fact: My 355mm stoptechs fade with $262 PFC pads. Braking is a lot more controllable and consistent, with lower rotor temps than on stock brembos/ rotora rotors and various racing pads. IMO their brakes need bigger pads with larger swept area rotors; 6 pots would also help. Initial bite isn't as aggressive as I wish and my ABS won't come on until down to about 50 to 60 mph on race slicks. My 9 year old porsche brakes better on 320mm rotors and hoosiers, which btw uses the exact same sized pad on the REAR as stoptech uses on their front ST40 355mm brake kit; which also happens to be smaller than the stock EVO front brake pad. A good friend just installed Forcefed's Alcon 6 pot 370mm kit, will report back after next track event.
Sorry to go off topic on your thread, just my 2¢.
Anyway, fact: My 355mm stoptechs fade with $262 PFC pads. Braking is a lot more controllable and consistent, with lower rotor temps than on stock brembos/ rotora rotors and various racing pads. IMO their brakes need bigger pads with larger swept area rotors; 6 pots would also help. Initial bite isn't as aggressive as I wish and my ABS won't come on until down to about 50 to 60 mph on race slicks. My 9 year old porsche brakes better on 320mm rotors and hoosiers, which btw uses the exact same sized pad on the REAR as stoptech uses on their front ST40 355mm brake kit; which also happens to be smaller than the stock EVO front brake pad. A good friend just installed Forcefed's Alcon 6 pot 370mm kit, will report back after next track event.
Sorry to go off topic on your thread, just my 2¢.
Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya
I've heard that almost all brake fluids boil under heavy breaking, leading to fade. I know Motul 600 is a great fluid but it can also lead to fade. The best one is supposedly Castrol SRF, this is what a lot of race cars use and has the highest boiling point of all fluids. It is also my no means cheap. Last time I checked it was $80 a bottle Yikes! .....
I honestly think stock brembos with better rotor and pads are the way to go, but if I were to upgrade I would probably go with Stoptech both F and R at the same time because balance is the most important thing with breaking.
I honestly think stock brembos with better rotor and pads are the way to go, but if I were to upgrade I would probably go with Stoptech both F and R at the same time because balance is the most important thing with breaking.
And the feeling you get is different also. When your brakes FADE, you still have the same pedal pressure, except the car does not stop as well. When the fluid BOILS, the pedal will feel spongy, and you may need to pump the brakes to get the car to stop.
Both are based on heat, but fade is dependent upon mostly the pads, whereas fluid boil has to do with thermal heat dissipation qualities of the rotor, pad, and caliper as well as the thermal conductivity of the pistons.
I second the stoptech motion if you wanted to get a larger caliper and rotor setup. They are extremely good, and short of getting a Brembo racing system, IMO they are the best in the business.
Originally Posted by trinydex
for rally they usually change the brakes from the larger more clamping power rotors and calipers for gravel events. but for tarmac they bring out the big guns... so since you named three motorsports... two and possibly a half being on tarmac i'd say go with the big guns. seeing as they're the same price.
. Right now I'm bouncing between either a Stoptech 4-pot/332mm or an Endless 6-pot/320mm. I'm not too worried about price, just want the better upgrade.
stoptech vs Stasis/Alcon
Hi,
Since my last post I've taken out the 4 pot 355mm stoptechs and gone with the Alcon/Stasis 355mm kit. I'm still playing around with different pad compounds and have only done two track events, but overall I'm real happy with the switch and no doubt I'm getting superior braking performance. These comments might be a bit premature, but compared with stoptechs:
pluses: more bite at higher speed (can engage abs at higher speeds. Car now runs on 285's up from 265's), no pad fade even on less aggresive pads and the 285's, stiffer brake pedal - although it's a 6 pot the piston area is about the same as the 4 pot stoptech, overall these brakes evoke a greater sense of confidence at the limit, great customer service (it's been easier to get a hold of someone 
)
negs: takes twice as long to change pads. Pita - need to remove caliper - it's a monoblock, not two halves with a removable bridge at the top like the stoptechs. Rotors look like they might not last as long, but it's too early to tell. Less pad choice and some are twice as expensive, the stoptechs use the same pad that's on the rear of the 993 turbo so there's a lot of choices out there. Replacement rotors are still about 1g - same as stoptechs. Silver paint turned gold on only one track day 
.
I believe that for the hard core take no prisoners racer this is what they need. It might not be the best choice for an endurance race since pads are thinner and wear out a bit faster, but these brakes can be pushed harder.
I loaned my Stoptechs to a fellow EVO race team who ordered a set of Alcon/Stasis too late for the august race and he loved the stoptechs. The driver had managed to boil the brake fluid on stock brakes a few times on aggresive pads and said the stoptechs inspired a sense of confidence he had lost with an increase in power - more engine mods - about 340whp (maybe he'll pop in and tell you why he had lost confidence in the stock brakes). Well his Alcons arrived in time for the next race and as soon as he got off the car he said " the Stasis brakes are better..." If any of you are experiencing real trouble with your brakes after learning how to brake, having functional brake ducts, and running the right pads and the right fluids, and don't mind the negs above, these are the right brakes for you.
BTW, don't expect better braking than a GT3 on similar conditions. It's never gonna happen. Our cars carry too much weight over the front axle.
cheers,
jic
Since my last post I've taken out the 4 pot 355mm stoptechs and gone with the Alcon/Stasis 355mm kit. I'm still playing around with different pad compounds and have only done two track events, but overall I'm real happy with the switch and no doubt I'm getting superior braking performance. These comments might be a bit premature, but compared with stoptechs:
pluses: more bite at higher speed (can engage abs at higher speeds. Car now runs on 285's up from 265's), no pad fade even on less aggresive pads and the 285's, stiffer brake pedal - although it's a 6 pot the piston area is about the same as the 4 pot stoptech, overall these brakes evoke a greater sense of confidence at the limit, great customer service (it's been easier to get a hold of someone ) negs: takes twice as long to change pads. Pita - need to remove caliper - it's a monoblock, not two halves with a removable bridge at the top like the stoptechs. Rotors look like they might not last as long, but it's too early to tell. Less pad choice and some are twice as expensive, the stoptechs use the same pad that's on the rear of the 993 turbo so there's a lot of choices out there. Replacement rotors are still about 1g - same as stoptechs. Silver paint turned gold on only one track day .I believe that for the hard core take no prisoners racer this is what they need. It might not be the best choice for an endurance race since pads are thinner and wear out a bit faster, but these brakes can be pushed harder.
I loaned my Stoptechs to a fellow EVO race team who ordered a set of Alcon/Stasis too late for the august race and he loved the stoptechs. The driver had managed to boil the brake fluid on stock brakes a few times on aggresive pads and said the stoptechs inspired a sense of confidence he had lost with an increase in power - more engine mods - about 340whp (maybe he'll pop in and tell you why he had lost confidence in the stock brakes). Well his Alcons arrived in time for the next race and as soon as he got off the car he said " the Stasis brakes are better..." If any of you are experiencing real trouble with your brakes after learning how to brake, having functional brake ducts, and running the right pads and the right fluids, and don't mind the negs above, these are the right brakes for you.
BTW, don't expect better braking than a GT3 on similar conditions. It's never gonna happen. Our cars carry too much weight over the front axle.
cheers,
jic
Originally Posted by ez
Hmmm...I too thought these exhibited no fade during all of the big brake shootouts. They must have used a different setup...or perhaps the tests were not as intense as your track experiences. I guess I'll have to go back and research this issue further....
I haven't driven my car in any other tracks to have the correct frame of reference to the issue at hand, but they did fade (pad fade - not fluid fade) on the long brake zone which is from 100 down to a 30mph turn, followed by 125 down to 30mph hairpin. I believe this track is very demanding on the brakes and brakes don't get a chance to cool down. John Mueller has driven it, maybe he'll chime in.
Originally Posted by Taz
ez,
I haven't driven my car in any other tracks to have the correct frame of reference to the issue at hand, but they did fade (pad fade - not fluid fade) on the long brake zone which is from 100 down to a 30mph turn, followed by 125 down to 30mph hairpin. I believe this track is very demanding on the brakes and brakes don't get a chance to cool down. John Mueller has driven it, maybe he'll chime in.
I haven't driven my car in any other tracks to have the correct frame of reference to the issue at hand, but they did fade (pad fade - not fluid fade) on the long brake zone which is from 100 down to a 30mph turn, followed by 125 down to 30mph hairpin. I believe this track is very demanding on the brakes and brakes don't get a chance to cool down. John Mueller has driven it, maybe he'll chime in.
To clarify...were you running ducts with that StopTech setup?
Originally Posted by trinydex
question... did you get a custom stoptech kit... because the stoptechs only come in 4 piston 332x32 front with 328x28 rear
or just 328x28 front and the same 4 piston caliper
or just 328x28 front and the same 4 piston caliper
No, not a custom kit. At the time they offered a front only 355mm kit. I waited nearly a year for them to come out and as soon as stoptech called me and told me they had a set in stock, I bought them on august 2004. Latter they added a 4 pot rear for this kit, but now they've changed the rear caliper to 2 pot similar to the oem caliper. I think they realized the rear 4 pot wasn't necessary on our nose heavy cars and all it did was displace more brake fluid on the system, meaning a longer pedal travel.
I hear stoptech is finally playing around with 6-pot front calipers. I believe one of the first kits will be for the C6 vette. Maybe eventually these calipers will find their way into a kit for the EVO.
Originally Posted by ez
Thanks for elaborating. I don't think the tests I've seen were that demanding...not like Sebring or the Glen. When I finish my research and decide on which hardware, I'll want them as close to bulletproof as possible.
To clarify...were you running ducts with that StopTech setup?
To clarify...were you running ducts with that StopTech setup?
Yes, I even went as far as cutting a hole on my bumper, cause I wasn't satisfied with squeezing a hose next to the oil cooler duct. On the caliper side, I fab'd some 3" aluminum brake ducts that grab to the caliper bolts. No pics of those since it was my first venture into welding aluminum. I do have a pic somewhere here of a similar duct a welder latter did for another car, after looking at my stupendous design. PM me your e-mail for the pics.
Check out some pics here of the air inlets at the bumper:http://www.prrra.com/images/galeria/...dex.html#row71
scroll down to pics #410 on. My car is the wingless white gsr.
Originally Posted by Taz
ez,
Yes, I even went as far as cutting a hole on my bumper, cause I wasn't satisfied with squeezing a hose next to the oil cooler duct. On the caliper side, I fab'd some 3" aluminum brake ducts that grab to the caliper bolts. No pics of those since it was my first venture into welding aluminum. I do have a pic somewhere here of a similar duct a welder latter did for another car, after looking at my stupendous design. PM me your e-mail for the pics.
Check out some pics here of the air inlets at the bumper:http://www.prrra.com/images/galeria/...dex.html#row71
scroll down to pics #410 on. My car is the wingless white gsr.
Yes, I even went as far as cutting a hole on my bumper, cause I wasn't satisfied with squeezing a hose next to the oil cooler duct. On the caliper side, I fab'd some 3" aluminum brake ducts that grab to the caliper bolts. No pics of those since it was my first venture into welding aluminum. I do have a pic somewhere here of a similar duct a welder latter did for another car, after looking at my stupendous design. PM me your e-mail for the pics.
Check out some pics here of the air inlets at the bumper:http://www.prrra.com/images/galeria/...dex.html#row71
scroll down to pics #410 on. My car is the wingless white gsr.
Okay, to bring up a fairly dead topic in order to avoid posting again... What is the "best" track racing PAD? I'm planning on getting some front track pads to replace the DS2500s in the front at track events and I'm just wondering what the best ones would be IYO, and where you recommend getting them from. Thanks a bunch!