Motec Install on Stock EVO X :)
Well put. Darin's come a long way since he hired me to install a clutch in his Civic in 1998, hahaha. It's funny to think he raced me in my white Supra (that I eventually sold to Titan, Nero's hardtop) vs. him in his Kenji Civic hatch... and then he went onto Supras like he did.
Man... the good old days. 12 years later, and we're both playing with EVO's. Looking forward to this whole MoTeC thing. I'm making over 400awhp on stock ECU right now, stock motor, and will be looking to grow out of this setup with time as I'll let Darin be the g-pig to test everything and blow up a few first.
Lou
Man... the good old days. 12 years later, and we're both playing with EVO's. Looking forward to this whole MoTeC thing. I'm making over 400awhp on stock ECU right now, stock motor, and will be looking to grow out of this setup with time as I'll let Darin be the g-pig to test everything and blow up a few first.
Lou
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
Yeah he left the stock ecu there and integrated the Motec into it. I think he's looking to get their plug and play kit now and see how that works. We found a place to probably sleeve the block and they have started on the manifold. We've talked to a couple different places about some turbo options, so hopefully we can get this project rolling so he can have some fun with the car! Its sooooo slow to him right now, haha.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: orlando
Well put. Darin's come a long way since he hired me to install a clutch in his Civic in 1998, hahaha. It's funny to think he raced me in my white Supra (that I eventually sold to Titan, Nero's hardtop) vs. him in his Kenji Civic hatch... and then he went onto Supras like he did.
Man... the good old days. 12 years later, and we're both playing with EVO's. Looking forward to this whole MoTeC thing. I'm making over 400awhp on stock ECU right now, stock motor, and will be looking to grow out of this setup with time as I'll let Darin be the g-pig to test everything and blow up a few first.
Lou
Man... the good old days. 12 years later, and we're both playing with EVO's. Looking forward to this whole MoTeC thing. I'm making over 400awhp on stock ECU right now, stock motor, and will be looking to grow out of this setup with time as I'll let Darin be the g-pig to test everything and blow up a few first.
Lou
I've got some things in the works for my car. Should be up well over 500hp pretty soon here. The car is just way too slow with the stock turbo, I had to do something...
-Darin
Last edited by Darin D; Jul 15, 2010 at 04:55 PM.
Lol.. It's funny you should mention that, I was in ft lauderdale yesterday on some of the same roads we all used to race on, brought back memories of the honda days. Chipped ecus, playing with cam timing on the dyno for hours, racing from a 2nd roll up to like 120 on the frontage roads..haha good stuff.
I've got some things in the works for my car. Should be up well over 500hp pretty soon here. The car is just way too slow with the stock turbo, I had to do something...
-Darin
I've got some things in the works for my car. Should be up well over 500hp pretty soon here. The car is just way too slow with the stock turbo, I had to do something...
-Darin
Good luck with the EVO. My EVO X is probably my favorite car out of the 25-30 cars I've owned. It has a little bit of everything. I'm looking forward a lot more power (like you) for dragging the car. Not too many people on here are fond of drag racing, so it's nice to have you around.
Like I said on your Facebook page... the gearing MUST be addressed in these cars for drag. Wayyyy too short and then 5th is way too long to deal with for the last 300 feet or so. I did the math and here's what the stock gearing looks like:
4th Gear
2000 RPM 29 MPH
3000 RPM 44 MPH
4000 RPM 58 MPH
5000 RPM 73 MPH
6000 RPM 87 MPH
7000 RPM 102 MPH
8000 RPM 116 MPH
9000 RPM 131 MPH
5th Gear 2000 RPM 42 MPH
3000 RPM 64 MPH
4000 RPM 85 MPH
5000 RPM 107 MPH
6000 RPM 129 MPH
7000 RPM 150 MPH
8000 RPM 172 MPH
9000 RPM 193 MPH
Lou
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Oceania
One problem with the Motec M400 or M800 for that matter is that it's not CAN BUS, we've only just completed a kit for the GSR Evo X 5 speed with an M800 and there are a few things that just dont work, and with the SS-T it's just not possible!
The problems with fitting an M400/800 to an Evo X GSR 5 speed are these:
No Immobilizer
No Cruise Control
No Knock Control
Cold Starts (Average at best no matter how much time you spend on the thing)
While great for motorsport usage, a Motec won't give you the safety net that the OEM ECU provides and when it's a road car where the unknown is what's going into the petrol tank i think you need to consider that fact carefully.
We use the M800 exclusively with the Evo X RS in a circuit racing environment and where we find it of an advantage is in the ability to tune to the enth degree, and you can do that without fear of turning your engine into a hand grenade when you are buying your fuel in 44 gal drums. That's why you pay the big bucks for race fuel, as it's a monitored and controlled fuel.
I often get asked the question about Motec for a road car and the analogy I often use is to consider the OEM ECU being like a 4 draw filing cabinet where it can cross reference other data even if rarely used. (Tuners will know what I mean with the factory ECU as there are quite a few tables that only see use under weird circumstances) That's the beauty of the OEM ECU, it's the ability to utilize rarely used maps/tables in strange circumstances, and via CAN BUS it can do this very quickly.
Your Motec is like a single draw filing cabinet and while everything is easier to find without as much 'junk' it can't cross reference extra data like the OEM unit can. To give an example where this can be bad, is with no knock control. Basically the Motec will be giving the same amount of timing and fuel in a situation where you have bad fuel, that can be catastrophic for your engine. The difference being the OEM ECU will interpolate into it other maps, it will always play the safety card.
Another thing to consider is that the Evo X ECU is light years ahead of previous Evo's. If you took all the info from an Evo IX ECU and turned it into ones and zero's you'd have 80 A4 pages to read through. Do the same with the Evo X ECU and you'll have 800 pages.
Make no mistake, the OEM bang box in the EVO X is a bloody good thing by anyone's standards.
The problems with fitting an M400/800 to an Evo X GSR 5 speed are these:
No Immobilizer
No Cruise Control
No Knock Control
Cold Starts (Average at best no matter how much time you spend on the thing)
While great for motorsport usage, a Motec won't give you the safety net that the OEM ECU provides and when it's a road car where the unknown is what's going into the petrol tank i think you need to consider that fact carefully.
We use the M800 exclusively with the Evo X RS in a circuit racing environment and where we find it of an advantage is in the ability to tune to the enth degree, and you can do that without fear of turning your engine into a hand grenade when you are buying your fuel in 44 gal drums. That's why you pay the big bucks for race fuel, as it's a monitored and controlled fuel.
I often get asked the question about Motec for a road car and the analogy I often use is to consider the OEM ECU being like a 4 draw filing cabinet where it can cross reference other data even if rarely used. (Tuners will know what I mean with the factory ECU as there are quite a few tables that only see use under weird circumstances) That's the beauty of the OEM ECU, it's the ability to utilize rarely used maps/tables in strange circumstances, and via CAN BUS it can do this very quickly.
Your Motec is like a single draw filing cabinet and while everything is easier to find without as much 'junk' it can't cross reference extra data like the OEM unit can. To give an example where this can be bad, is with no knock control. Basically the Motec will be giving the same amount of timing and fuel in a situation where you have bad fuel, that can be catastrophic for your engine. The difference being the OEM ECU will interpolate into it other maps, it will always play the safety card.
Another thing to consider is that the Evo X ECU is light years ahead of previous Evo's. If you took all the info from an Evo IX ECU and turned it into ones and zero's you'd have 80 A4 pages to read through. Do the same with the Evo X ECU and you'll have 800 pages.
Make no mistake, the OEM bang box in the EVO X is a bloody good thing by anyone's standards.
The MoTeC does have CAN BUS, and the EVO operates at half speed of the typical MoTeC. There is a way to set this up and get it to work. Installing it in a factory GSR will eliminate the ASC.
If you wanted to add knock control, you can, if you really feel you need it.
Depending on your application, additional sensors can be added for fuel pressure, oil pressure and other things to trim out the way the car runs. Just a few examples of ways it could be MORE safe than a factory ECU.
Cold start is only going to be as good as the person who is using the ECU. It is no easy feat with the DBW motor, especially if you haven't done one before.
There is an M800 plug in unit that is now available from MoTeC. It is not for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it to people with stock a stock turbo that do an occasional track day. There are definitely applications which demand the sort of extra control and less restriction.
If you wanted to add knock control, you can, if you really feel you need it.
Depending on your application, additional sensors can be added for fuel pressure, oil pressure and other things to trim out the way the car runs. Just a few examples of ways it could be MORE safe than a factory ECU.
Cold start is only going to be as good as the person who is using the ECU. It is no easy feat with the DBW motor, especially if you haven't done one before.
There is an M800 plug in unit that is now available from MoTeC. It is not for everyone, and I wouldn't recommend it to people with stock a stock turbo that do an occasional track day. There are definitely applications which demand the sort of extra control and less restriction.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
All of Darin's cars have started up great on a Motec, My Supra starts as fast as a stock one but sounds soo much nicer Just gotta take the time to get it all dialed in.
I feel like too many people are posting their opinion without enough knowledge, or they think they have enough knowledge about it but then i read through their post and its obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Its killing me almost to keep checking back in this thread and keep my mouth shut to people, haha.
Just gotta take the time to get it all dialed in. I feel like too many people are posting their opinion without enough knowledge, or they think they have enough knowledge about it but then i read through their post and its obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Its killing me almost to keep checking back in this thread and keep my mouth shut to people, haha.
All of Darin's cars have started up great on a Motec, My Supra starts as fast as a stock one but sounds soo much nicer Just gotta take the time to get it all dialed in.
I feel like too many people are posting their opinion without enough knowledge, or they think they have enough knowledge about it but then i read through their post and its obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Its killing me almost to keep checking back in this thread and keep my mouth shut to people, haha.
Just gotta take the time to get it all dialed in. I feel like too many people are posting their opinion without enough knowledge, or they think they have enough knowledge about it but then i read through their post and its obvious they don't know what they are talking about. Its killing me almost to keep checking back in this thread and keep my mouth shut to people, haha.
I wouldn't let it get to you, Darin had great success at Titan so I'm sure he's cooking something up for the Evo X platform.
Your always going to have people that don't agree with what you do, just go out and prove them wrong
___
Carlos Tirado