Dodge and Mitsubishi to Share Neon Platform | [MERGED]
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 29
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From: Clinton Twp, MI
Originally Posted by Mastacheif
Its so funny to hear everyone knocking dodge when Mitsu is one of the worst car companies currently in business. Any evo owners on here void a warranty lately? Any clutches go in an attempt to pull 1/4 mile times that mitsu claims?? The evo clutch is the butt of more jokes than the rear windows in the srt-4. The evo is a great car dont get me wrong but it has some problems, fan boys being one of them. Many of you evo guys need to do a little more reading on cars other than the evo. You are so loyal to a brand that has no loyalty to its owners what so ever.
Dcx has been doing very well since the rerelease of the hemi and all of the srt cars. The same mags that praise the evo so much have given the same praise to the 300c, the magnum and the all of the srt cars. Mitsu has the evo and uhhh well they also have uhhh.. hmm I guess if they also have the new eclipse but it cost as much as an evo and pales in comparison! Dodge has a much better line of cars than mitsu does.
The new caliber and lancer will share the same engine built by hyundai and the awd system built by mitsu. The next evo will have the 2.0l world engine in it not the 4g63, the new srt-4 will have the 2.4l world engine, a mitsu turbo and it will have the same awd system as the evo. The evo will still be made by mitsu in japan, the new srt is just dodges version of the evo. Dont make it out to be so doom and gloom i bet the car will kick ***. Dcx has been on the ball when it comes to making high performance cars. They have 11 or so cars with over 350 hp all of which have recieved very high marks. Mitsu has 1 car that gets raved about and the rest of the cars are junk.
Many evo owners on this very site have been screwed by mitsu and the evos value has started to decline due to the bad press about evo warranties (which originated from this site). Yet many of you can still bad mouth a company who is doing much better and overall making better cars.
Dcx has been doing very well since the rerelease of the hemi and all of the srt cars. The same mags that praise the evo so much have given the same praise to the 300c, the magnum and the all of the srt cars. Mitsu has the evo and uhhh well they also have uhhh.. hmm I guess if they also have the new eclipse but it cost as much as an evo and pales in comparison! Dodge has a much better line of cars than mitsu does.
The new caliber and lancer will share the same engine built by hyundai and the awd system built by mitsu. The next evo will have the 2.0l world engine in it not the 4g63, the new srt-4 will have the 2.4l world engine, a mitsu turbo and it will have the same awd system as the evo. The evo will still be made by mitsu in japan, the new srt is just dodges version of the evo. Dont make it out to be so doom and gloom i bet the car will kick ***. Dcx has been on the ball when it comes to making high performance cars. They have 11 or so cars with over 350 hp all of which have recieved very high marks. Mitsu has 1 car that gets raved about and the rest of the cars are junk.
Many evo owners on this very site have been screwed by mitsu and the evos value has started to decline due to the bad press about evo warranties (which originated from this site). Yet many of you can still bad mouth a company who is doing much better and overall making better cars.
Originally Posted by Eckstant
Mitsubishi does make strong cars.
Yes, the SRT-4 is a pretty nice car. But FWD is lame. If they really do go AWD with it then it'll be something to compete with.
Dodge's Magnum is a fugly piece of work. As well as their new "charger" that they only built to replace the Intrepid's body in Nascar, which, if you like you should be visiting a dodge forum. Nascar that is. In my opinion there's nothing cool about traveling 200mph in a big circle. And as for the SRT-10. Well yeah, let's put the biggest engine we have into the most tail happy truck we have and see what comes out.
The only reason Mitsu has been voiding warranties is because people have been stupid about what they've done to their cars. Mitsu has to protect it's own *** by making these strict rules. As would ANYONE who offers a 10yr/100k warranty. It's simple math.
The Hemi isn't what it used to be so it shouldnt' even be called a hemi.
And these Diamler Chrysler high performance cars you speak of. Where? Yes they have the Viper. But that's just a little out of reach and a bit impracticle for your everyday joe. Same goes with the SRT-10. The SRT-8 is nice, but is also fairly ugly. It's Dodge's attempt to look bling with the copied look of a Bentley.
Same goes for Chevy. The cobalt? What a piece. The only thing that Chevy's made that has any ***** is the Vette.
Pontiac? GTO, if you can call it that, is the only thing that it really has going for it. And even then they took away the Holden Monaro's bumper's and hood and replaced it with your grandma's GrandAm.
Ford has the SVT series. But only two of them are actually obtainable. The new Cobra, and the new Lightning. Forget about the GT if you make less than 6 figures a year.
Don't accuse people of not knowing what else is going on in the world without checking. I follow just about every car maker out there. But to prove your point. Yes, the Evo's about the only car that Mitsu has over here that's worth a ****. But it's ONE car that has gone circles around most of the other cars you named off.
I still highly doubt that Mitsu would let Dodge outperform them. Even with the new Caliber that they're putting out. People will still call it the Neon.
Yes, the SRT-4 is a pretty nice car. But FWD is lame. If they really do go AWD with it then it'll be something to compete with.
Dodge's Magnum is a fugly piece of work. As well as their new "charger" that they only built to replace the Intrepid's body in Nascar, which, if you like you should be visiting a dodge forum. Nascar that is. In my opinion there's nothing cool about traveling 200mph in a big circle. And as for the SRT-10. Well yeah, let's put the biggest engine we have into the most tail happy truck we have and see what comes out.
The only reason Mitsu has been voiding warranties is because people have been stupid about what they've done to their cars. Mitsu has to protect it's own *** by making these strict rules. As would ANYONE who offers a 10yr/100k warranty. It's simple math.
The Hemi isn't what it used to be so it shouldnt' even be called a hemi.
And these Diamler Chrysler high performance cars you speak of. Where? Yes they have the Viper. But that's just a little out of reach and a bit impracticle for your everyday joe. Same goes with the SRT-10. The SRT-8 is nice, but is also fairly ugly. It's Dodge's attempt to look bling with the copied look of a Bentley.
Same goes for Chevy. The cobalt? What a piece. The only thing that Chevy's made that has any ***** is the Vette.
Pontiac? GTO, if you can call it that, is the only thing that it really has going for it. And even then they took away the Holden Monaro's bumper's and hood and replaced it with your grandma's GrandAm.
Ford has the SVT series. But only two of them are actually obtainable. The new Cobra, and the new Lightning. Forget about the GT if you make less than 6 figures a year.
Don't accuse people of not knowing what else is going on in the world without checking. I follow just about every car maker out there. But to prove your point. Yes, the Evo's about the only car that Mitsu has over here that's worth a ****. But it's ONE car that has gone circles around most of the other cars you named off.
I still highly doubt that Mitsu would let Dodge outperform them. Even with the new Caliber that they're putting out. People will still call it the Neon.
the new hemi's still have a hemispherical combustion chamber, how is it not a hemi?
the cobalt ss isn't too shabby. i think 22k is a little high though.
And these Diamler Chrysler high performance cars you speak of. Where?
a popular car like the evo, you think the japanese will let dodge to handle any part of the production...i don't think so..no offense to any parties. just ford mustang won't let honda design or produce their platform. same analogy
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,312
Likes: 3
From: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted by themann42
good to see someone step up and acknowlege dodge for what they are. the one thing i hate about these forums is how everyone bashed everything that's not a mitsu. but the only thing excellent or above par about mitsu is the evo.
much of this is just opinion and doesn't count for anything.
The only thing we know about these cars is Mistubishi developed the platform, and sold it to Dodge for use in their small cars. It was a joint effort between DCX, Hyundai and Mitsu for the world engine program, and in no particular order. We can speculate on who did the most work. The engine plant is in Belevedere, OH - I think. I don't know if Evo engines will come from there, but it is possible.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 487
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From: Anywhere
The EVO will have a Dodge version, with extensive Chrysler involvement in engineering in the two door version. The four door will be primarily worked on by Mitsubishi engineers, though members of the Neon ACR team are helping them, thanks to their strong rally and SCCA success. (The Neon traces its pedigree back to the Shelby Dodges, partly through John Fernandez). Mitsubishi has been a strong rally car and their engineers are no slouches. We're not exactly sure, though, why Dodge and MMC have switched places - the Stratus/Sebring/Avenger coupes were pretty pure Mitsubishi.
<LI>The Chrysler-Mitsubishi-Hyundai World Engine: 1.8, 2.0, 2.4
Seriously updated, 2/9/05, using information from this ad&p article. Updated a little more 2/18/05.
EngineHPLb-FtNm1.8 liter1401251692.0 liter1501401902.4 liter1701652242.4 turbocharged235???The first of the "world engines" in the United States with key advanced technologies - variable valve timing and a flow-control valve intake manifold - will be sold by Chrysler. The engines were designed jointly by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai, and will be made and used by all three - in rather different configurations (Mitsubishi even has a three-cylinder variant!). Chrysler is using dual-variable-valve technology to control both intake and exhaust valves; Hyundai is using a different variable-valve package. The result of this, as well as different intakes and other packaging details, will probably result in different power outputs for each of the three companies using the same basic engines.
The engines made by Chrysler will be in three displacements, all familiar to Chrysler owners (because all three are similar to the current Neon/Stratus engine): 1.8, 2.0, and 2.4 liters. The 2.4 should reach 170 horsepower and 165 lb-ft of torque, which is roughly 20 hp better than the current 2.4 and about the same as the old intercooled 2.2 turbo (Turbo II). At the same time, they will reach ULEV II emissions standards and increase gas mileage by 5% over the current line. Some of the gain is due to variable valve timing, with continuously variable phasing of both the intake and exhaust valves ("dual VVT"). Though Chrysler has been late to the variable valve party, it will be the first company to offer dual VVT in the United States on entry-level vehicles - using a Mercedes system. The heads are wedge-shaped.
The engines are designed to be turbocharged and supercharged, partly through over-engineering of the block, and use of large water jackets and metal areas around each siamesed cylinder.
Noise, vibration, and harshness are addressed through an isolated valve cover and damped oil pan, a variety of select-fit parts, and the flow control valve ("variable") intake manifold. The bell housing is designed for a tighter than usual connection to the transmission, hopefully eliminating the oil leaks that often come to high-mileage engines.
The engine has a high-pressure, die-cast aluminum block and will be built in a new joint-venture plant in Dundee, Michigan; blocks for the Dundee engines are made by J.L. French of Wisconsin. The engines built in Dundee will most likely be used entirely in Chrysler vehicles at first, though we'd expect Mitsubishi to use the same engines for their American-made Eclipse and Galant. We have no word on the fate of the plant that makes the current 2.0, 2.4, and 1.8.
The photos are courtesy of Chrysler. We expect many more details - stay tuned to this page!
Who is actually designing the engines?
Reportedly, the basic block was designed by Hyundai, and Chrysler and Mitsubishi then made a large number of modifications to make it more efficient and adapt it to their uses and technologies. Most of the packaging/dressing components, such as intake manifolds and valve timing equipment, appear to have been developed by each partner independently and will be used independently as well. For example, the variable valve timing was developed by Mercedes and is used on the V6 in the E-Class. J.L. French makes the blocks for American engines, with Nemak providing head castings from Mexico.
While some have said that Chrylser paid $57 million in royalties to Hyundai for design work, an informed source noted that the funding for GEMA was put togther by all the partners, and that $57 million was just DCX's share of the GEMA funding. GEMA itself is a separate company from DCX, MMC, and Hyundai, and it pays royalties to external and internal partners and patent holders.
According to the Dodge Caliber press release:
The plastic intake manifold has equal-length runners with electrical flow control valves that, when closed, increase air tumble by blocking over half the intake port. Over 3,200 rpm, the valves are opened to allow full airflow. The valve cover is also composite (plastic) and has a variety of vibration-reducing seals.
The electro-hydraulic dual valve timing system uses oil under pressure to adjust timing (both intake and exhaust) using cam phasing so that timing is continuously variable. There is little overlap at idle and more overlap at speed, to permit built-in exhaust gas reburning without a pump. The exhaust cam can move through 35 degrees; the intake through 40 degrees. The cams ride on tappets that come in four dozen very similar thicknesses; the tappets are automatically matched to the individual heads during assembly, eliminating the need to adjust valve lash.
While all the engines use essentially the same block, displacement is changed by shortening the stroke or using thicker piston liners. The pistons themselves have short skirts and friction-reducing graphite patches. The crankshaft is forged steel, is located above the balance shaft/oil pump, and draws oil from the oil pan; it includes an integrated pump. The blocks are all automatically measured at the factory and key components such as pistons and bearings are matched to individual engines to reduce machining and noise, while increasing engine efficiency.
Why are they designing and building engines with two competitors?
Total World Engine production, from two plants in Dundee, two in South Korea, and one in Japan, is expected to be 1.8 million engines per year. Each participating company will see far higher volumes, offsetting engineering costs (by amortizing them over more units) and allowing cost savings from parts purchasing as well. Many components, including pistons, valves, rods, fuel injectors, and camshafts, are outsourced; by raising the volume, the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance (GEMA) can reduce the price of these as vendors are also able to amortize engineering costs over higher volumes. The result will, according to GEMA, save $100 million per year for DCX. There are also price savings from having similarly designed assembly plants, albeit in different countries.
Capital investment has further been reduced by standardizing machining centers, using commonly available machines, and by running the plant in the US 294 days per year.
According to GEMA, Chrysler actually took the lead in development of the dual variable valve timing system.
"Flexible machining centers in a hospital-clean manufacturing environment are the basis to the GEMA business model," said GEMA President Coventry. "Compared to the traditional transfer line process, this model incorporates part recognition and automatic changeover features to allow different products to flow down the line seamlessly; even allowing for a batch size of one. An even greater benefit that machining centers give us over transfer lines is uninterrupted flow, even if there is machine downtime. In the end, we're creating a final product with higher precision, better performance and durability that greatly exceeds each partner company's previous standards."
The Chrysler Group will take the lead in operating the two Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance facilities in Dundee, Mich. GEMA is investing more than $700 million in the 1 million square-foot plant, which will create approximately 550 jobs in Southeast Michigan. Each of the two Dundee plants will have capacity of 420,000 units per year.
<LI>The Chrysler-Mitsubishi-Hyundai World Engine: 1.8, 2.0, 2.4
Seriously updated, 2/9/05, using information from this ad&p article. Updated a little more 2/18/05.
EngineHPLb-FtNm1.8 liter1401251692.0 liter1501401902.4 liter1701652242.4 turbocharged235???The first of the "world engines" in the United States with key advanced technologies - variable valve timing and a flow-control valve intake manifold - will be sold by Chrysler. The engines were designed jointly by Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai, and will be made and used by all three - in rather different configurations (Mitsubishi even has a three-cylinder variant!). Chrysler is using dual-variable-valve technology to control both intake and exhaust valves; Hyundai is using a different variable-valve package. The result of this, as well as different intakes and other packaging details, will probably result in different power outputs for each of the three companies using the same basic engines.
The engines made by Chrysler will be in three displacements, all familiar to Chrysler owners (because all three are similar to the current Neon/Stratus engine): 1.8, 2.0, and 2.4 liters. The 2.4 should reach 170 horsepower and 165 lb-ft of torque, which is roughly 20 hp better than the current 2.4 and about the same as the old intercooled 2.2 turbo (Turbo II). At the same time, they will reach ULEV II emissions standards and increase gas mileage by 5% over the current line. Some of the gain is due to variable valve timing, with continuously variable phasing of both the intake and exhaust valves ("dual VVT"). Though Chrysler has been late to the variable valve party, it will be the first company to offer dual VVT in the United States on entry-level vehicles - using a Mercedes system. The heads are wedge-shaped.
The engines are designed to be turbocharged and supercharged, partly through over-engineering of the block, and use of large water jackets and metal areas around each siamesed cylinder.
Noise, vibration, and harshness are addressed through an isolated valve cover and damped oil pan, a variety of select-fit parts, and the flow control valve ("variable") intake manifold. The bell housing is designed for a tighter than usual connection to the transmission, hopefully eliminating the oil leaks that often come to high-mileage engines.
The engine has a high-pressure, die-cast aluminum block and will be built in a new joint-venture plant in Dundee, Michigan; blocks for the Dundee engines are made by J.L. French of Wisconsin. The engines built in Dundee will most likely be used entirely in Chrysler vehicles at first, though we'd expect Mitsubishi to use the same engines for their American-made Eclipse and Galant. We have no word on the fate of the plant that makes the current 2.0, 2.4, and 1.8.
Who is actually designing the engines?
Reportedly, the basic block was designed by Hyundai, and Chrysler and Mitsubishi then made a large number of modifications to make it more efficient and adapt it to their uses and technologies. Most of the packaging/dressing components, such as intake manifolds and valve timing equipment, appear to have been developed by each partner independently and will be used independently as well. For example, the variable valve timing was developed by Mercedes and is used on the V6 in the E-Class. J.L. French makes the blocks for American engines, with Nemak providing head castings from Mexico.
While some have said that Chrylser paid $57 million in royalties to Hyundai for design work, an informed source noted that the funding for GEMA was put togther by all the partners, and that $57 million was just DCX's share of the GEMA funding. GEMA itself is a separate company from DCX, MMC, and Hyundai, and it pays royalties to external and internal partners and patent holders.
According to the Dodge Caliber press release:
Chrysler Group brought its engineering expertise to the World Engine program in the areas of cylinder port and intake manifold design using advanced Computational Fluid Dynamics tools. Chrysler Group engineers led the development work on dual Variable Valve Timing (VVT), as well as an integrated 2:1 oil pump/balance shaft assembly. Chrysler Group also refined the engines for exceptional smoothness and sound quality.
Clever stuffThe plastic intake manifold has equal-length runners with electrical flow control valves that, when closed, increase air tumble by blocking over half the intake port. Over 3,200 rpm, the valves are opened to allow full airflow. The valve cover is also composite (plastic) and has a variety of vibration-reducing seals.
The electro-hydraulic dual valve timing system uses oil under pressure to adjust timing (both intake and exhaust) using cam phasing so that timing is continuously variable. There is little overlap at idle and more overlap at speed, to permit built-in exhaust gas reburning without a pump. The exhaust cam can move through 35 degrees; the intake through 40 degrees. The cams ride on tappets that come in four dozen very similar thicknesses; the tappets are automatically matched to the individual heads during assembly, eliminating the need to adjust valve lash.
While all the engines use essentially the same block, displacement is changed by shortening the stroke or using thicker piston liners. The pistons themselves have short skirts and friction-reducing graphite patches. The crankshaft is forged steel, is located above the balance shaft/oil pump, and draws oil from the oil pan; it includes an integrated pump. The blocks are all automatically measured at the factory and key components such as pistons and bearings are matched to individual engines to reduce machining and noise, while increasing engine efficiency.
Why are they designing and building engines with two competitors?
Total World Engine production, from two plants in Dundee, two in South Korea, and one in Japan, is expected to be 1.8 million engines per year. Each participating company will see far higher volumes, offsetting engineering costs (by amortizing them over more units) and allowing cost savings from parts purchasing as well. Many components, including pistons, valves, rods, fuel injectors, and camshafts, are outsourced; by raising the volume, the Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance (GEMA) can reduce the price of these as vendors are also able to amortize engineering costs over higher volumes. The result will, according to GEMA, save $100 million per year for DCX. There are also price savings from having similarly designed assembly plants, albeit in different countries.
Capital investment has further been reduced by standardizing machining centers, using commonly available machines, and by running the plant in the US 294 days per year.
According to GEMA, Chrysler actually took the lead in development of the dual variable valve timing system.
"Flexible machining centers in a hospital-clean manufacturing environment are the basis to the GEMA business model," said GEMA President Coventry. "Compared to the traditional transfer line process, this model incorporates part recognition and automatic changeover features to allow different products to flow down the line seamlessly; even allowing for a batch size of one. An even greater benefit that machining centers give us over transfer lines is uninterrupted flow, even if there is machine downtime. In the end, we're creating a final product with higher precision, better performance and durability that greatly exceeds each partner company's previous standards."
The Chrysler Group will take the lead in operating the two Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance facilities in Dundee, Mich. GEMA is investing more than $700 million in the 1 million square-foot plant, which will create approximately 550 jobs in Southeast Michigan. Each of the two Dundee plants will have capacity of 420,000 units per year.
Boy is that an Ugly car......... And I thought the new STI was Fugly....
Looks like my Evo8 just gained some equity..$$$$$$$$$$ Keep it coming guys, your doing a great job. I hope my car will hold half of its value like the Supra Twin Turbos are doing!
Looks like my Evo8 just gained some equity..$$$$$$$$$$ Keep it coming guys, your doing a great job. I hope my car will hold half of its value like the Supra Twin Turbos are doing!
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From: Delaware
New EVo to be Dodge Neon platform share
New Evo/Lancer news Will bet at Frankfurt auto show this fall. 
